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EP3Lov3
03-30-2012, 10:09 AM
I have been looking at some lowering springs and I like the eibach sportlines but I have smaller diameter wheels (215/45/16) so the car does sit a little bit lower, does that affect how much I can lower the car at all because the lower control arms seem to be more horizontal. So, I want to lower a little more than 1.5 inches but I don't want it to negatively affect handling because I will be autocrossing. Would some aftermarket lower control arms help? What can I do to drop a little more closer to 2 inches but have it handle better than stock?

EUB44
03-30-2012, 01:13 PM
i on eibach sportline which gives u 1.5 drop. If you are looking for 2. H&R can give you that drop.

mitchlikesbikes
03-30-2012, 02:00 PM
i'm on eibachs and stock camber kits with no rubbing and the handling is still pretty good. i would get camber kits if you're looking for better handling.

or just save for coils

EP3Lov3
03-30-2012, 02:14 PM
I'm just worried about lowering too much and negatively affecting handling..... what can I do to lower near 2 inches but not compromise handling?

RhINoX^
03-30-2012, 03:29 PM
I had Sportlines before I put the a-spec. Handling sucks on sportlines and ride was terrible compered to a-spec. Stock dampers aren`r design to handle lowering springs... If you are local I will give you my sportlines for free.

makavelibranded
03-30-2012, 03:34 PM
If you lower it any it will make your handling worse, are you on stock shocks? what are all of your mods? MY recommendation is to get on the track and see if you enjoy it 1st, I have a the greatest fucking time racing I absolutely love it but it gets expensive, addicting, and you may even not enjoy it.

EP3Lov3
03-30-2012, 03:39 PM
I had Sportlines before I put the a-spec. Handling sucks on sportlines and ride was terrible compered to a-spec. Stock dampers aren`r design to handle lowering springs... If you are local I will give you my sportlines for free.
I'll pay for shipping if you wanna ship them

EP3Lov3
03-30-2012, 03:41 PM
If you lower it any it will make your handling worse, are you on stock shocks? what are all of your mods? MY recommendation is to get on the track and see if you enjoy it 1st, I have a the greatest fucking time racing I absolutely love it but it gets expensive, addicting, and you may even not enjoy it.
I've already been on the track and I know that my EP can handle so much better than how it does now, I have ridiculous wheel gap right now and want to improve my handling as well so I just want to know what can I do to not negatively affect handling if I lower near 2 inches...

b_ron
03-30-2012, 05:23 PM
I've already been on the track and I know that my EP can handle so much better than how it does now, I have ridiculous wheel gap right now and want to improve my handling as well so I just want to know what can I do to not negatively affect handling if I lower near 2 inches...

if i had a nickel for everytime i heard that one....

i said that too when i first wanted to lower my car, but ended up not really caring about handling. i just wanted to be lower and got coilovers. eventually i want my car to hug the road more, but right now i really dont care.

i remember hearing someone say that lowering anything over 1" will decrease handling. but then again, coilovers/shocks/springs are not the only suspension mods to increase handling.

sippyyy
03-30-2012, 06:01 PM
...because the lower control arms seem to be more horizontal.

lol.

Cheep3
03-30-2012, 07:21 PM
The sportlines are as good a spring as you will find. They should handle just fine but if you're worried about going too low, get the Eibach Pro-Kit instead. The only problem with them is that it will be hard to tell that your car is lowered... I've had 3 different spring setups. Current setup is Hotchkis RSX springs (almost the same as Sportlines) and Koni shocks. I would go with springs now and shocks as soon as you can.

EUB44
03-31-2012, 09:46 PM
dlt

makavelibranded
04-01-2012, 07:42 AM
i must say it is nice share good to know that

fucking advertisment bot how is this guy still on here?

EP3Lov3
04-01-2012, 12:25 PM
I would be upgrading the shocks asap though once i get a couple paychecks (im a poor highschool kid) i was thinking about tokicko blues, they are reasonably priced and my friend has them on his DSM and he likes them

Blah1219
04-01-2012, 12:52 PM
i must say it is nice share good to know that

Hahaha!! So fuckin random! I actaully like it. This guy needs a new program.

EUB44
04-01-2012, 01:28 PM
You are lookin about 450 for tokico blues. With H&R springs, total will be around 650- 700. I would rather get tein basic coilovers for 800. You can adjust your ride height any time you want.

mitchlikesbikes
04-01-2012, 02:12 PM
You are lookin about 450 for tokico blues. With H&R springs, total will be around 650- 700. I would rather get tein basic coilovers for 800. You can adjust your ride height any time you want. :thumbu:

this!

RhINoX^
04-01-2012, 02:32 PM
Will get A-spec for under $700 shipped. Oem quality. Don`t have much experience with tokico blues for ep3, but on fg chassis they suck. They are pretty much oem replacement.

EP3Lov3
04-02-2012, 07:26 AM
Maybe once summer starts and I work more hours, I'll end up doing GC sleeves with Koni yellows =)))

StimulisRK
04-03-2012, 01:52 PM
If you're gonna autoX/track then yes, lowering too much will worsen your handling. Just DDing you wont notice the negative effects of over lowering. When you lower too much, your LCA's point upward which decreases negative camber when cornering (no matter what you have static camber set at) and your roll center drops which leads to more body roll and weight transfer - all the opposite of what people think they're accomplishing by lowering.

MustClime from Honda Tech (he used to post on here too I think) really knows his stuff and lays it all out here http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2639666

EP3Lov3
04-03-2012, 02:22 PM
I read that I can't lower with Koni Yellow's more than 1.3 inches. Am I better off getting coilovers such as the tein basics and being lowered while daily driving, and raise it a little for track days?

iDom
04-04-2012, 05:26 AM
I read that I can't lower with Koni Yellow's more than 1.3 inches. Am I better off getting coilovers such as the tein basics and being lowered while daily driving, and raise it a little for track days?

If you read further in the suggested thread (lengthy, but well worth it) you'll get plenty of info from mustclime about what he prefers as far as coilovers go. It really is a science to properly set up a suspension. Pay attention to the bold at the bottom..


Post #5
Well, on the topic of lowering springs. Mcpherson strut suspensions work very well in their "sweat spot". If you lower the car out of its sweat spot, you are forced to run huge spring rates and swaybars to control body roll induced by coring load acting on poor suspension angles. With our suspension design, any front springs that are progessive are just plain dumb....remember, you do not want your ft lca's angling up from the center of the car going into a trun, a progressive spring will allow this to happen with its lower rate in the first inch of travel. So why you ask do these tuning compenys make them? Because people that do not know any better buy them.
Spring makers are also limited in what spring rates they can use. If you lower a car 2 inches that only has 5.0 inchs of upward suspension travel, you should increase the spring rates by close to 100% to keep the car off its bumpstops. If you do this to a spring that is going to have the stock damper try to control its rebound. Do not expect that damper to last long. If you do not beleive me, ask some people that have some junk2 coilover sleeves. Junk2 sold people their kit that had a 570lb rate spring for the front when the stock ep3 had stock progressive spring rates of around 250lb and the dc5 had 280lb ish....I know people than had their almost new dampers blown in less than a month. What can you learn from this.....stay away from lowering springs. If you really want to TUNE your suspension remember this.....

1) the grip of the tires set the spring rates.
2) the rates of the springs set the dampers
3) the balance of the car sets the swaybar size
4) bushing and braces have their place in all of this but it is less than you think. Braces are pretty much the last thing you should get.

Post#14
Next topic.....swaybars suck.

Have you ever though about how a swaybar( anti-roll bar) works? What are they good for? Have you ever thought "since the factory put a 25mm hollow bar on the front of my car, wouldn't my car handle better with a 27mm solid bar"?

Well, for the longest time I thought of swaybars(SB) as spring helpers. I thought that when you went into a turn, the swaybar(SB) being attached to the lca and the body helped hold up the car through the turn....WRONG!!!!

Think about what happens when you go through a turn......
1) the driver turns the wheel, the tires turn and bite, the car starts tochange direction...
2) As the car starts to change direction, weight shifts to the outside tires, the outside springs are overloaded and start to compress.
3) as the springs compresm the lower control arm starts to angle up.....the (SB) being attached to both lca's and the body is forced up on the outside side......
this is the important part!!!!
what happens on the inside suspension of the car???
4) the (SB) being nothing more than a "U" shaped rod/tube pulls up the inside lca because it "wants" to be flat not twisted.
think about that for a second.
.
.
.
.

Now, if down force increases grip( like having huge wings on a F1 car), what does up force do to grip???? Well, It decreases grip.....
This is why some people think of (SB)'s as grip reducers. Why would car makers ever put such a stupid thing on a car, why not control body roll with spring rates......simple, who wants to dd a car that can run over an ant and have the driver feel every bone in its body crush.....OK, what should you do with this knowage? IMO, understand that big sways on the drive wheels are really dumb, Understand that you should use the non drive wheels to control body roll because they are doing the least work in a turn. These are the reasons you wait till you have your tires, springs and dampers before you mess with the sways. (SB)s are for fine tuning the suspension not setting it up.

Post #26
Ok....some basics.....the grip of your tires set your spring rates, your spring rates set your damper because your dampers job is to control the spring rebound. Sways are just for fine tuning....If you are looking for a off the shelf coilover set that is going to make you dc5/ep3 into a track killer....sorry, noone makes one because a car that is fast on the track is tail happy. Tail happy cars have a bad habbit of skidding off the road backwards in the hands of a rookie or ricer on the street and that = law suits....
That being said, pretty much any "off-the-shelf" coilover set you are going to get will be under spring in the rear so you have a understeer set up. You can offset this a little by using wider tires( more grip) in the front and a larger sway in the rear....Since you have not told me what size and type of tires you are going to run, I have no way of working out your spring rates....you have also not told my the total weight of the car with yourself in the car and wether you will be running with a codriver....( track days beginers need instructors in the car).
One other bit of info for you.....back in the 60's, you could buy a off the showroom floor sports car and show up to a race and compete, then drive the car home. Now days this is prettymuch impossable....do you know why? Its the tires....back in the 60's, tires had no grip so car makers could ruin low rate springs and even with these soft springs the cars just drifted through every turn on the hard no grip tires. Now days, tires have huge amounts of grip, so to keep the car from flopping over on its bumpstops in a turn, you have to run huge spring rates to keep the car flat in the turn. The more the grip, the stiffer the springs needed. Ok, say you set up your car for some 275mm wide race slicks at the track, you then pull off the slicks and mount some street tires on the car and drive it home from the track....well your springs are going to be about twice has stiff as they should be for your street tires so you are goinng to be sideways/ snow plowing at any speed

All that being said If you are going to be running grippy street tires, think about the buddyclub rsd or the tien MONO flex......do not get the tien flex, they are crap like all the cheap tien kits.....the mono flex is a good set thought and so are the other high end tiens.....Another option is a custom tuned set of koni's and some custom ground control springs and sleeves....morton and penski are also up there is you have the bucks.

makavelibranded
04-04-2012, 08:14 AM
I read that I can't lower with Koni Yellow's more than 1.3 inches. Am I better off getting coilovers such as the tein basics and being lowered while daily driving, and raise it a little for track days?

you could but you have the chance of screwing up your alignment

EP3Lov3
04-06-2012, 08:14 AM
If you read further in the suggested thread (lengthy, but well worth it) you'll get plenty of info from mustclime about what he prefers as far as coilovers go. It really is a science to properly set up a suspension. Pay attention to the bold at the bottom..

A lot of good information, I was leaning towards the Buddy Club N+1 coilovers because of how you can adjust the dampening. Now since in the spring/summer I'm on Falken Azenis RT615 215/45/16, would the BC coils be okay for daily driving and track use? if not, then what coils would be better? I don't care if the ride will be not comfortable for daily driving because I don't need comfort in my car, that's what my house is for. Also, what other things can I do to improve the handling of the car other than adjusting the nut that holds the wheel (lol)

NEO_FOLLOWER2
04-06-2012, 01:49 PM
Will get A-spec for under $700 shipped. Oem quality. Don`t have much experience with tokico blues for ep3, but on fg chassis they suck. They are pretty much oem replacement.

yeah i like my aspec...but i do have a desire to lower my car a tiny bit more

like maybe .5inch more

most people wont even be able to tell that you even "lowered" your car if you're on aspec

iDom
04-06-2012, 02:37 PM
A lot of good information, I was leaning towards the Buddy Club N+1 coilovers because of how you can adjust the dampening. Now since in the spring/summer I'm on Falken Azenis RT615 215/45/16, would the BC coils be okay for daily driving and track use? if not, then what coils would be better? I don't care if the ride will be not comfortable for daily driving because I don't need comfort in my car, that's what my house is for. Also, what other things can I do to improve the handling of the car other than adjusting the nut that holds the wheel (lol)

Lots of people say the Azenis are horribly overpriced.. Do some searching around. I hear good things about the Dunlop Direzza Star Spec's

Tires are the most important thing when it comes to any type of performance, really.. So, start there. Then suspension. Then sway bars/bushings. But if you're DD'ing the car.. You'll be fine with tires/suspension. No need for the other crap. If you want to get deeper in to it, I would advise getting another car and dedicating one to a specific thing. Lots of people want daily drivers to be amazing performers on the track and at the drag strip and ride a Mercedes E-Class.. Not gonna happen.

iDom
04-06-2012, 02:39 PM
yeah i like my aspec...but i do have a desire to lower my car a tiny bit more

like maybe .5inch more

most people wont even be able to tell that you even "lowered" your car if you're on aspec

You kiddin me?

http://image.hotrod.com/f/8970325+w750+st0/113_0306_01z+2002_honda_civic_si+front_side_view.j pg

Compared to

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6036/6995070165_eee29de09a_z.jpg

iDom
04-06-2012, 02:45 PM
Also, you gotta keep in mind that even reputable aftermarket companies (BC/TEIN/ETC..) offer their "crappy" lines of products.. Even the R&D on popular name brand aftermarket products isn't a fraction of the R&D that these car manufacturers put in to their parts. Now, I'm not saying they're the best by any means.. But for the price, for the brand, for the performance, for the practicality of application (daily driver) the A-Spec has no competition.. IMHO

It is VERY compromising when you lower the car too much on a performance level. So, if you want the best of both worlds, at a good price.. I would go with the A-Spec.. If you just want to slam your car and ride like a cholo then buy some cheap racelands.. Or if you want to have a reason to put TEIN stickers on your car, then pay $1000+ on a set of those.

makavelibranded
04-06-2012, 02:59 PM
A lot of good information, I was leaning towards the Buddy Club N+1 coilovers because of how you can adjust the dampening. Now since in the spring/summer I'm on Falken Azenis RT615 215/45/16, would the BC coils be okay for daily driving and track use? if not, then what coils would be better? I don't care if the ride will be not comfortable for daily driving because I don't need comfort in my car, that's what my house is for. Also, what other things can I do to improve the handling of the car other than adjusting the nut that holds the wheel (lol)

If you get the Buddyclubs you might as well get the race specs for a tad more, GREAT spring rates and I love mine even DD they are stiff but I dont mind I love driving my car.

EricP3
04-17-2012, 06:28 AM
Don't get Tein Basics they are shit. I had them on my car for about 6 years and only 40k miles and the rears almost rusted through on the bottom mount. Not to mention that one side's bushing on the bottom seized itself to the bolt forcing me to have to cut through the bolt on both sides to get it off. The fronts seem to be fine but the rears were terrible. Even comparing it to the size of a koni/HR srping combo it looks wimpy.

Anyone else have problems with Tein Basics?

EUB44
04-18-2012, 03:55 PM
Buddy club N+

lemonhead228
04-18-2012, 09:14 PM
buddy club n+ is where's it at