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View Full Version : type s tranny into ep3



Jacksond
05-07-2012, 09:25 PM
Ok First off, i apologize if this is in the wrong section, but I am getting a type s transmission with 50k for like 110$ in parts plus my 5sp transmission. I have done some searching, but just want to make 100% sure before I take the plunge. For the swap I will be ok using my USDM ep3 axles correct? I will be able to use my stock USDM ep3 shifter housing, cables, etc without hassle with the added sixth gear correct? I have read that the gear lockout and reverse lockout will not work with my ep3 harness but that is not a necessary feature to drive my car correct? It simply wont have a lockout on those gears which is not a big deal to me. Is there ANYTHING I will need to do this swap aside from the complete transmission? I will be removing my ep3 5sp transmission, putting on a new exedy oe spec clutch kit (pressure plate, throw out bearing, etc) and putting in the type s transmission. I will check tomorrow that the transmission is not from a 05-06 because it is my understanding that the VSS differs. If someone could confirm this for me I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks.

AKEP
05-08-2012, 04:04 AM
its bolts right in. the biggest thing the reverse lock out does is keep you from overshooting 4th-5th into no-man's corner. 5th-6th is not a big deal, you can't possibly hit reverse unless you did it on purpose.

you might run into a problem with the stock shifter, you might not. some do some dont. if you do, its a matter of trimming the right arm (it moves up and down when the stick goes left/right) on the bottom. or buy/find buddy club short shifter.

lil_Eggy
05-08-2012, 08:04 PM
For the swap I will be ok using my USDM ep3 axles correct?
Yes

I will be able to use my stock USDM ep3 shifter housing, cables, etc without hassle with the added sixth gear correct?
From what I read on the forums, it depends on the year of your car. My '02 had no issues using the stock shifter with the type s transmission swap

I have read that the gear lockout and reverse lockout will not work with my ep3 harness but that is not a necessary feature to drive my car correct?
Correct, the solenoid will be left unplugged

Is there ANYTHING I will need to do this swap aside from the complete transmission?
Transmission fluid

Jacksond
05-08-2012, 09:17 PM
Thank you guy for your help, I'm kinda tight on money right now and don't really NEED this transmission, but getting a type s transmission with 50k miles for 110$ Qnd my old trannt with 110k miles was just too good an offer to pass up. I plan on ordering an oem spec exedy clutch kit, or if you can suggest something a little better I'd appreciate it. My plans for this car are to convert/swap in a k20a2 or a k24 down the line and turbo or supercharge depending on which engine I end up with. I am just a poor college student right now so for at least another year or two I will be performing minor misc minor mods ( suspension, i/h/e,etc) with minor spirited driving except for my desire to start autox if I can find a club in northern Indians/south Michigan/Illinois. I by no means want a race clutch or anything that will drastically reduce deuvability or mad cash yo, but wouldn't mind something slightly more aggressive. My next question would be about the difficulty/cost of replacing the synchroa or any other normal wear part of the transmission before I install it. Thanks for all the help!

Cliff notes:
Thanks for help
Replacing clutch, suggestions for slightly more aggressive than oem
Replacing synchros difficulty/cost?
Anything else I should change/ OR upgrade while tranny is out?

cyllarus
05-18-2012, 08:23 PM
I just did the exact same swap as part of my k24a2 swap

Everyone is correct here.. as far as hardware it bolts right in.
if you have an '02 or '03 you might not need to modify the shifter... i did not have to.

One thing that was mentioned but i overlooked:
the stock ep3 5sd has a 4.7 Final drive.

Many of the RSX 6 speed trannys have a 4.4 final drive.

If you install a tranny with a final rive of 4.4 your speedo is going to read about 20% higher.

You have a couple of options to fix it, but all of them involve splicing a signal adjuster into the wiring harness.

search around for dakota digital speed sensor converter.

lbk02si
05-19-2012, 12:13 AM
its bolts right in. the biggest thing the reverse lock out does is keep you from overshooting 4th-5th into no-man's corner. 5th-6th is not a big deal, you can't possibly hit reverse unless you did it on purpose.

you might run into a problem with the stock shifter, you might not. some do some dont. if you do, its a matter of trimming the right arm (it moves up and down when the stick goes left/right) on the bottom. or buy/find buddy club short shifter.

how in god's name could you possibly go from 4th to reverse??? lol! 5th to reverse POSSIBLY if you are an absolute retard. i remember when i was swapping my motor over to the z1 and i can't remember who it was that told me this on here, but they were absolutely correct. don't even worry about reverse lockout, if you hit reverse from 5th you shouldn't be driving.

Slip_Angle
05-19-2012, 10:39 AM
I just did the exact same swap as part of my k24a2 swap

Everyone is correct here.. as far as hardware it bolts right in.
if you have an '02 or '03 you might not need to modify the shifter... i did not have to.

One thing that was mentioned but i overlooked:
the stock ep3 5sd has a 4.7 Final drive.

Many of the RSX 6 speed trannys have a 4.4 final drive.

If you install a tranny with a final rive of 4.4 your speedo is going to read about 20% higher.

You have a couple of options to fix it, but all of them involve splicing a signal adjuster into the wiring harness.

search around for dakota digital speed sensor converter.

Oh? Can you enlighten me? I've got an 02 RSX-S transmission going in this Thursday/Friday. Also, I have an 02 Si. What part of the shifter needs to be modified should I run into that issue?

Seems to me this is only the case if you mis-match a low speed and high speed setup. If you have them matched, you should be fine no?

cyllarus
05-23-2012, 07:27 PM
Sorry for late reply, have been spending nights doing 2nd gear pulls, working the rich parts out of the tune you gave me :)

luckily i didnt have to notch my shiftier to get into reverse, at times its a little tough to get into reverse, but i think its more of an issue that the setup is still new to me.

I also did not wire the reverse lockout, as many say, without it the possibility of going into reverse when shifting from 4th or 5th is pretty small once your hand gets a feel for where the 6th gear gate is. however i could see this still being a danger if you are driving HARD and really jam it into reverse thinking you are going to 6th.

Eventually i WILL buy an RSX harness and wire the reverse lockout, just for peace of mind.

On the speedo:
I know the sticky in this forum says that the only time a speedo mismatch is a problem is when you mix a low frequency setup (02-04 trannys) with a high frequency setup (05-06 tranny)

however i can provide data logs to prove this is not always the case. Right now in 6th gear @ 3.7k RPM my speedo reads 94 MPH! I know from the old 5spd that this should be somewhere between 75-82, even with the different final drive.

Slip, I'd be very interested to know if you end up with a similar speedo inconsistency once you have your tranny in.

Slip_Angle
05-23-2012, 08:04 PM
Sorry for late reply, have been spending nights doing 2nd gear pulls, working the rich parts out of the tune you gave me :)

luckily i didnt have to notch my shiftier to get into reverse, at times its a little tough to get into reverse, but i think its more of an issue that the setup is still new to me.

I also did not wire the reverse lockout, as many say, without it the possibility of going into reverse when shifting from 4th or 5th is pretty small once your hand gets a feel for where the 6th gear gate is. however i could see this still being a danger if you are driving HARD and really jam it into reverse thinking you are going to 6th.

Eventually i WILL buy an RSX harness and wire the reverse lockout, just for peace of mind.

On the speedo:
I know the sticky in this forum says that the only time a speedo mismatch is a problem is when you mix a low frequency setup (02-04 trannys) with a high frequency setup (05-06 tranny)

however i can provide data logs to prove this is not always the case. Right now in 6th gear @ 3.7k RPM my speedo reads 94 MPH! I know from the old 5spd that this should be somewhere between 75-82, even with the different final drive.

Slip, I'd be very interested to know if you end up with a similar speedo inconsistency once you have your tranny in.

Hrm... That's not good. Did you just swap an 02 transmission in with no changes?

It's going in tomorrow!!! So... I should be able to tell you by Friday/Saturday what my results are.

sleepy ep3
05-23-2012, 08:50 PM
I have the Hybrid racing VSS converter on my 06 si trans. Seems like it always reads low. I'm always thinking "I'm on doing 5 above the speed limit, why am I flying past everyone?" lmao

Euro-Yellow-Ep3
05-24-2012, 05:32 AM
Greta info. I will defiantly need this when I get my trans

Slip_Angle
05-25-2012, 09:23 PM
Transmission is in!

Observations so far...

1. No issues with the Speedometer readings. They are correct.
2. New Competition OEM clutch is even softer than stock, grabs a bit quicker.
3. Acceleration is much more linear than the 5 Speed.
4. The lower revs with the 4.3FD in 6th gear are nice.
5. The triple cone syncho's are a nice addition (Smoother shift) for the 1-2 / 2-1 shift. (5 Speed is triple only on 3/4/5)

Since the clutch, pressure plate etc are new, I'm taking it easy. I'm also getting used to the differences in shift gates. I was worried about hitting reverse but as others have said, it's really hard to do.

More to follow after I get seat time.

Slip_Angle
05-27-2012, 08:31 AM
Additional observations.

6. If I rest my foot on the clutch pedal I get a vibration through the clutch pedal. Once it's pressed past about 1/2 inch further the vibration goes away.
7. Initial 1st gear engagement causes vibration. Almost like a motor mount is broken/lose but once I let the clutch out and have engaged 1st gear everything is normal after that.
8. The car generally feels more "raw" - kinda like the difference when ESMM's are installed vs. stock.

Clutch is new, pressure plate is new, throw-out bearing is new, flywheel was machined. Ideas? Do I just need more break-in time?

cyllarus
05-28-2012, 12:35 PM
I agree with all of slips observations, except the clutch issues, i put in an exedy stage 1, and it feels and drives like stock.

I agree that the overall feel of the car is more "raw" with the tighter gears.

As far as the shuddering you are feeling, id have to say its clutch related, as i am experiencing none of these issues.

VERY INTERESTING that you dont report an issue with your speedometer...

One thing i remembered the other day:
I swapped trannys with a person who had a 6 speed. When we swapped, he KEPT the VSS from the 6speed transmission, and i KEPT the vss from the 5 speed transmission.

I wonder if these 2 VSS's are designed to work with a particular FD ( the 5spd VSS for the 4.7 FD, and the 6spd VSS for the 4.4 VSS )

interesting...

cyllarus
05-28-2012, 12:35 PM
I agree with all of slips observations, except the clutch issues, i put in an exedy stage 1, and it feels and drives like stock.

I agree that the overall feel of the car is more "raw" with the tighter gears.

As far as the shuddering you are feeling, id have to say its clutch related, as i am experiencing none of these issues.

VERY INTERESTING that you dont report an issue with your speedometer...

One thing i remembered the other day:
I swapped trannys with a person who had a 6 speed. When we swapped, he KEPT the VSS from the 6speed transmission, and i KEPT the vss from the 5 speed transmission.

I wonder if these 2 VSS's are designed to work with a particular FD ( the 5spd VSS for the 4.7 FD, and the 6spd VSS for the 4.4 VSS )

interesting...

Jacksond
05-28-2012, 10:40 PM
Started swap saturday at noon with bounding ambition and a pocket full of dreams. 12 hours later and zero beers I was about "fit to be tied" but only had to install battery and intake then was going to be finished finally! Then Dave hopped in car to test clutch after I fitted the slave cylinder in and he tells me "there's no clutch... S**t went straight to floor" after pumping a few times I hear a pissing sound and find that the slave piston shot out of boot and was spraying brake fluid down intake manifold. I went home then. Today after putting it off I began diagnosing problems and found I knocked slave off piston seat when installing it and nothing was actually wrong. Fabbed that bish back together and dropped car off lift and went for ride. 12 hours, a blown front motor mount, two seized/hacked off sway end links, and one rusted bolt later I was driving on i69 in 6th turning about 3k at 70 mph, grinning from ear to ear. Grinning until I pulled back into the garage and tried to reverse slightly because I pulled too far forward in my joyous state. So now I would love insight on what it is exactly I must "notch" to make a space for reverse in my car. Please help me finish this project up. Thanks.



Cliff NOTES:
Type s tranny into ep3 complete
Need recommendations on end links for progress front sway
No reverse
Need info how to make spot for reverse gear so I may resume backin into spots
Need recommendations on replacement front mount/inserts that don't vibrate excessively
Need recommendations on good replacement/performance (if applicable) ball joints

Jacksond
05-28-2012, 10:51 PM
Theres a small chance i have a reverse ,because i was able to get to an area east of 5/6 where I was not able to select 5-6 but also had no reverse but wasn't about to force anything into anywhere this early in the process. It felt like another slot/ area (area meaning 1-2 have an area , 3-4 have an area and 5-6 etc) was present to the right of 5-6 but not sure. Anyway, pretty sure kid was legit about tranny having only 50k on it, every gear was very notchy, the first gear lockout (if there actually is one on these, not entirely sure ) was actually blocking me out at 30 mph ( I traditionally downshift/coast to stops) unlike my old ep which was hesitant but always let me in ;). If there are differing final drives would a 4.4 as opposed to a 4.7 overall longer gears? Please excuse my lack of knowledge, my knowledge of final drive is limited, but I always was under the impression that it affected entire characteristics of transmission (eg lower fd car in 6th turns 3k at 70 where higher fd car same tranny gearing otherwise would turn > 3k at 70?) please enlighten me.

Jacksond
05-28-2012, 10:57 PM
Oh and by the way exedy recommends 500 miles city driving break in, if you drive mostly highway then 1000 miles. No dropping, no spirited acceleration, and shifts at or below 4k

USAF EP3
05-28-2012, 11:14 PM
I agree with all of slips observations, except the clutch issues, i put in an exedy stage 1, and it feels and drives like stock.

I agree that the overall feel of the car is more "raw" with the tighter gears.

As far as the shuddering you are feeling, id have to say its clutch related, as i am experiencing none of these issues.

VERY INTERESTING that you dont report an issue with your speedometer...

One thing i remembered the other day:
I swapped trannys with a person who had a 6 speed. When we swapped, he KEPT the VSS from the 6speed transmission, and i KEPT the vss from the 5 speed transmission.

I wonder if these 2 VSS's are designed to work with a particular FD ( the 5spd VSS for the 4.7 FD, and the 6spd VSS for the 4.4 VSS )

interesting...

The actual sensor part itself is the same. What's different is the pinion that rides on the ring gear of the final drive. Remember 02-05 EP3 and 02-04 RSX-S use mechanical driven sensors, then convert it to an electrical signal. 05+ RSX-S and 06+ others transmissions use a 3rd gear countershaft magnetic sensor that reads how many times the gear passes it.

02-04 RSX-S GEAR, SPEEDOMETER DRIVE:
41312-PPP-000

02-05 EP3 GEAR, SPEEDOMETER DRIVE:
41312-PE6-310

Different part numbers, so your speedo will be incorrect if you keep your old sensor. If you want to keep your old sensor I recommend a Dakota digital speedo converter. You have different options with it, you can keep the same signal frequency but the signal is made adjustable through the converter.

5970

Jacksond
05-30-2012, 12:27 PM
Ya I went about notching the stock shifter really conservatively and just put it back in , still no reverse. Gotta work now, goin back at it after work tonight. Will be taking many pictures after I do shave it so there will be an easily accessible resource for anyone else shaving their stock shifter. I am going to shave just enough to get by without doing any damage to my transmission. I recently found out the buddy club shifters are not discontinued (idk why I thought they still were) and will purchase one in the next few months.

Slip_Angle
05-31-2012, 09:31 AM
Additional observations.

6. If I rest my foot on the clutch pedal I get a vibration through the clutch pedal. Once it's pressed past about 1/2 inch further the vibration goes away.
7. Initial 1st gear engagement causes vibration. Almost like a motor mount is broken/lose but once I let the clutch out and have engaged 1st gear everything is normal after that.
8. The car generally feels more "raw" - kinda like the difference when ESMM's are installed vs. stock.

Clutch is new, pressure plate is new, throw-out bearing is new, flywheel was machined. Ideas? Do I just need more break-in time?

Interesting turn of events. Took the car into the transmission shop this morning highlighting the areas above in addition to my steering wheel being cock-eyed to the right between the 1-2 oclock position.

The technician loosened the subframe, moved it to the right and tightened the bolts back up -- THIS SOLVED ALL THE PROBLEMS.

1. Steering wheel is now straight
2. No shudder/vibration engaging 1st gear
3. Clutch pedal no longer pulsates
4. Shifts are now butter smooth
5. Gear selection is more natural/easy

Seems things were just out of alignment...

Jacksond
06-04-2012, 11:30 AM
Just thought I would post up some pics of modifying the factory shifter.
Before/very minimal shave

http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/zz80/Jackson0d/Snapbucket/1A6EFD63.jpg

http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/zz80/Jackson0d/Snapbucket/817FA1F0.jpg

This is after I shaved enough to access Reverse. Sorry the photo's are kinda crappy, its a 3 year old iphone and the lens was dirty. In these pics I hadnt had a chance yet to blow the shaving's off and I also jumped on the opportunity to grease the crap out of the shifter, so it is a mix of grease and shavings.

http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/zz80/Jackson0d/Snapbucket/49404618.jpg

http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/zz80/Jackson0d/Snapbucket/2F898E6D.jpg

really blurry sorry

http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/zz80/Jackson0d/Snapbucket/7C53133F.jpg

But the point of these photos is to show that you have to shave down both the lever and the base part that the lever lays on when you push shifter to the far right. If you were to simply shave one or the other I believe you would shave through the base level and hit the plastic brace/webbing underneath. The trickiest part of the process (aside from messing with the cables installing the shifter) was making sure to evenly shave everything. Maybe if you used a sander the problem would be avoided, but I used a dremel bit.

Jacksond
06-04-2012, 11:31 AM
Also, A huge help to me taking in and out the shifter was this writeup for installing a buddy club short shifter. Great tips. Thanks Jmange

http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthr...-Shifter-(BCSS)

Slip_Angle
06-14-2012, 09:43 PM
Still had some odd vibrations that didn't seem right, even though I have ESMM's. So.. I had a peek under my car today and discovered the shop that did my transmission swap lost the front motor mount bolt and used a bolt that is too small. There is lots of play between the bolt and the hole size. Does anyone know what size the front motor mount bolt is? Is it a 12mm?

Euro-Yellow-Ep3
06-17-2012, 07:54 PM
I have the Hybrid racing VSS converter on my 06 si trans. Seems like it always reads low. I'm always thinking "I'm on doing 5 above the speed limit, why am I flying past everyone?" lmao

I just adjusted mine, u need to pop the little screw cover and turn it clockwise for one click

Slip_Angle
06-17-2012, 08:55 PM
Still had some odd vibrations that didn't seem right, even though I have ESMM's. So.. I had a peek under my car today and discovered the shop that did my transmission swap lost the front motor mount bolt and used a bolt that is too small. There is lots of play between the bolt and the hole size. Does anyone know what size the front motor mount bolt is? Is it a 12mm?

Just for record, the bolt is an M12x1.25x88 - I replaced it and now everything is back to normal.

typeflex
06-10-2013, 03:39 PM
very informative thread, need this for future reference