Got Brakes????(NOT 56k friendly) [Archive]

DocofMind

01-08-2003, 08:36 PM

Finally, after waiting close to an eternity, I finally installed the latest version my big brake kit on our EP and our S2k.
Basically, everything is similar to the last design only this one is far more rigid. The 4 piston calipers are now FORGED which creates a balanced and easily modulated system. The rotors are also now available with a directionally veined structure to aid in cooling. I also had these cryogenically frozen. Freezing the rotor properly can double the life expetancy.
Here are a few quick pics. I ll get more of the EP soon. The car was filthy and in need of a bath.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid46/p91308aeeb2e96cb3551196c58d159155/fccef474.jpg

DocofMind

01-08-2003, 08:36 PM

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid46/p92eafa1ede831c9db4596d9110b3dcbd/fccef47b.jpg

DocofMind

01-08-2003, 08:37 PM

http://www.s2ki.com/ezimagecatalog/catalogue/variations/34096-640x480.jpg

DocofMind

01-08-2003, 08:38 PM

http://www.s2ki.com/ezimagecatalog/catalogue/variations/34097-640x480.jpg

DocofMind

01-08-2003, 08:39 PM

http://www.s2ki.com/ezimagecatalog/catalogue/variations/34094-640x480.jpg

Suk02Si

01-08-2003, 08:41 PM

sexy :D

goldy02

01-08-2003, 08:46 PM

hey Docofmind,

those wheels like bad ass, i like the fat tire look, were have you been its been a long time since i've seen you post thought you sold the ep andbought a new "Z". also anything on the clutch hose and rear setup

chunky

01-08-2003, 09:49 PM

i'm guessing 16" wheels are pretty much a requirement?

any chance of those calipers fitting on the stock caliper bracket?

DocofMind

01-08-2003, 10:22 PM

Thanx Goldy and Gary ;)
Why buy a Z when you got an S? Anyhow, i have tracked the car and really like the bias front to rear with these brakes on the car. I really didnt feel that the rear needed much in the sense of bite. With the car being front wheel drive, even more of the focus is on the front end. Any upgrade would mostly be aesthetic. For that reason, i put that project on teh back burner while i concentrate on a few other cars before the season really takes off. I will have a larger two piece rotor eventually, it just isnt priority right now.
Oh yeah, the clutch hose is almost done. Should be ready to be shipped by end of next week.
Chunky, minimum wheel size IS a 16 inch. Unfortunately, i dont have a bracket to bolt the 4 piston in the stock position. I m not even sure it can be done, but i will be glad to look into it for you tomorrow.

This set up drops around 18 pounds of unsprung weight off the front wheels. The difference in steering response and handling alone is worth the price of admission.

ortedd

01-09-2003, 05:27 AM

so how much is "the price of admission" ?

hamlet9634

01-09-2003, 06:48 AM

HEY, that looks an awful lot like my wheels and my brakes that I spent a week painting.

Info on the wheels: They are 16x7.5 Kosei K1's with a 32 offset that we powdercoated black to go on a silver EP. The offset is kinda crazy, but hey, it fits.

can't wait to see my baby

DocofMind

01-09-2003, 10:17 AM

Originally posted by ortedd
so how much is "the price of admission" ?

There are a few variations available so the price obviously depends on how extreme you would like to go.
The basic package: $ 750

Forged 4 piston calipers
12.2 inch 2 piece rotors
Anodized billet hats (for rotor)
Anodized brackets
Stainless steel brake lines (teflon enhanced)
EBC Greenstuff kevlar V4 (new version) brake pads
Aircraft quality hardware

This would be everything to convert the entire front over to a full blown race set up. Nothing else is needed.

From there, you can customize the rotor with whatever pattern and finishing you choose. Slotted, Drilled, or a combo of both.
You can also have your rotors cadmium plated in platinum silver or gold to prevent corrosion
Cryogenically frozen rotors are also available

For track junkies, there is also a directionally veined rotor also available. The curved veins use centrifugal force to promote cooling. All of the above options are also available with this design.

DocofMind

01-09-2003, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by hamlet9634
HEY, that looks an awful lot like my wheels and my brakes that I spent a week painting.

Info on the wheels: They are 16x7.5 Kosei K1's with a 32 offset that we powdercoated black to go on a silver EP. The offset is kinda crazy, but hey, it fits.

can't wait to see my baby

The wheels and brakes that YOU spent a week painting? Oh man oh man. All i know is that you owe both me and my lady a free surgeory each :p

PS Dont go around telling everyone our secrets. Besides, most people probably would not be willing to take a bat to the fender :eek:

hamlet9634

01-09-2003, 10:39 AM

bat to the fender?

c'mon, fender baseball is THE sport of the 21st century.

we don't count paint that has to be stripped and REDONE as part of the final product, do we?

for those of you interested in this setup:

the changeover takes about 2 hours (faster if you're a good mechanic and longer if you break a jingo bolt in the process:'( ). It is EXTREMELY easy, and you do NOT have to cut or removed the stock dust cover from the stock rotor.

Also, after you've changed to these brakes, you will have a choice of MANY brake pads (much more than stock) that are CHEAPER than stock, and you will be able to do EASY brake pad changes yourself (the new pads pop right in and out without needing to be pulled off the rotors):cool:

HondaMan

01-09-2003, 10:39 AM

I want them! :D

hamlet9634

01-09-2003, 12:13 PM

Anyone interested in these:

check out

www.brakezone.com

hamlet9634

01-15-2003, 11:04 AM

so nobody else upgrading the brakes?

where are the serious people on here?

JoshSI

01-15-2003, 11:51 AM

I woudl really like to do this upgrade especially sense it shaves some weight off. I want drilled and slotted rotors and red calipers. I might look into gettin that kit or wait until i can get ahold of some spoon calipers!

DocofMind

01-15-2003, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by JoshSI
I woudl really like to do this upgrade especially sense it shaves some weight off. I want drilled and slotted rotors and red calipers. I might look into gettin that kit or wait until i can get ahold of some spoon calipers!

Spoon stuff is awsome. The calipers are made by Nissin which manufactures many OEM calipers for Japanese cars. The only problem with those calipers is that they require you to run a ridiculous offset to get them to fit. On the S2000 they require you to use a 35mm offset which rubs far too much. Another issue is that the rotor that is only 11 inches but most importantly, it is only 1 piece. One of the main advantages of a larger system is the 2 piece rotor. This not only reduces weight, but also reduces the chance of warping and cracking. It also will cool faster than a 1 piece rotor.

Oh yeah, almost forgot, their caliper is NOT forged and is about 3 pounds heavier. Not as strong, heavier and costs about 1200 bux only for 2 calipers.No rotors, no pads, and no lines. Why? Cuz their Spoon :confused:

goldy02

01-15-2003, 04:48 PM

i was going to get the spoon set up also but it's not worth the money, and i got a spoon air filter, speaking of not worth the money, anyways im going to get this set up some time maybe in june because i have to wait until i get my sign-on bonus money from the air force, i will get them powder coated blue, hopefully then there will be a rear set-up to match the fronts, im all about suspension,

fishboy

01-15-2003, 06:44 PM

they look awesome. i am definitely interested in one of your kits. just gotta save for a while, a long while.:)

Jpax

02-20-2003, 03:52 PM

I think I found my Next DIY Video.... I will be buying this kit. At that price its a steal.

spoon3168

02-20-2003, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by PaXiE
I think I found my Next DIY Video.... I will be buying this kit. At that price its a steal.
paxie
i think u should include our civic service owner manual in pdf in ur diy..:D u will be mad cash:p
i seen an acura 1.6 EL service onwer manual in a disk in that el club b4

Jpax

02-20-2003, 04:55 PM

Thats a good idea.....I ll see what i can do.

LeperCon

03-03-2003, 09:58 AM

Was just curious, I am looking into SSR Competition wheels and wanted to know if these brakes would clear the 16"x7.5" wheel, or do I have to get the 17"x7.5"? I would really like to get these brakes and 16" wheels, please help.

DocofMind

03-03-2003, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by LeperCon
Was just curious, I am looking into SSR Competition wheels and wanted to know if these brakes would clear the 16"x7.5" wheel, or do I have to get the 17"x7.5"? I would really like to get these brakes and 16" wheels, please help.

I would need more info like the offset of the wheel to be completely positive. Regardless, i would suggest you to look for another wheel. This wheel is notorious for bending.

LeperCon

03-03-2003, 11:23 PM

Thanks for the heads-up, but I already knew that. I was just giving it as an example of what I want, I am thinking more now of OZ Supperlegeras in 16, offset of around +40. Any info you have would be very helpful, I am looking into buying these brakes in about 2-3 weeks.

Will2K2

03-04-2003, 03:07 PM

If thats a pic of the passenger side (which I think it is) than you made a major screw up.

The veins(GROOVES) in the rotor are supposed to be facing the rear of the car (NOT THE FRONT)

facing the grooves towards the front will draw air down the groove and towards the Hat(which your rotor is bolted to)

My question is this: how could you possibly have missed this, if you had the idea of doing a brake kit in the first place!!!!

W

Will2K2

03-04-2003, 03:21 PM

The way you have the grooves( I believe) is only going to draw air across the surface of the rotor to slam into the Hat.

By having them the way EVERY other manufacturer does, it actually creates a venturi effect with the heat rapidly being scavenged off the surface of the disk and away from the hat!!!

Grooves facing forward not back!
http://www.stainlesssteelbrakes.com/graphics/vehicles/20/Dscn1465.jpg

Again

http://www.stainlesssteelbrakes.com/graphics/vehicles/20/Dscn1472.jpg

and again

http://www.stainlesssteelbrakes.com/graphics/vehicles/19/MVC-006L.jpg

DocofMind

03-04-2003, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by Will2K2
The way you have the grooves( I believe) is only going to draw air across the surface of the rotor to slam into the Hat.

By having them the way EVERY other manufacturer does, it actually creates a venturi effect with the heat rapidly being scavenged off the surface of the disk and away from the hat!!!

Grooves facing forward not back!

First of all, there are two pictures both from different sides. Obviously you notice that the caliper is on different sides.

The grooves that you are talking about? You mean the slots? The slots are completely different than the veins of the rotor. The veins of the rotor you cant even see in this picture so what you are assuming is exactly that, an assumption.

If you are in fact pointing out the slots and their direction, then yes, they are pointed in the opposite direction of the rotors you pictured. The direction of these slots has nothing to do with air passage. The slots are simply there to help with degassing and help reduce glazing. You can run the slots in either direction, i personally choose to run facing forward. There is not much of a difference, but this way is slightly more aggressive.

Please go and do your research before you come here and tell me I am wrong. Even if i am, there are MANY that agree with me. Have you ever opened up a Japanese magazine before? Take a look at almost all the JGTC cars. Go take a look at Volks cars. All of them have their slots going forward.

Quicksilver

03-04-2003, 04:55 PM

I was just giving it as an example of what I want, I am thinking more now of OZ Supperlegeras in 16, offset of around +40. Any info you have would be very helpful, I am looking into buying these brakes in about 2-3 weeks.

OZ Superleggera's are 37mm offset. It should be a perfect fit for the brakes from what DocofMind has told me. I've got the exact same wheel in 17's (same offset), and will be installing the kit next week. We'll know for sure then. I'll be sure to post pictures of the install.

Will2K2

03-05-2003, 01:29 PM

Excuse me!!!!

I really don't care a rats ass who you are, what you drive, or what you think you are.

ANY OF THE PICS I find show the "slots" facing the rear! of the car.

BTW Thanks for explaining the theories behind slotted vs drilled :p without you I wouldn't know what to do :p

If I wanted to waste my time I would explain to you the principles of fluid dynamics, how they apply to the principles of air moving around your rotor or being static near the Rotors surface, particularily what happens to air as it nears the hat.

Thank you, and have a nice day

Will

Will2K2

03-05-2003, 03:09 PM

http://www.aj-racing.com/Media/Gallery/HTAugust/images/DSCN1205.jpg

Jpax

03-05-2003, 08:19 PM

Will trust me when i say......Don't test DOCOFMIND.....Thats all.

I Know in japan the racing circuit has there's facing forward. I have seen many people putting them to the rear its fine also.

Suk02Si

03-05-2003, 09:23 PM

yeah, I think DocofMind knows what he's talking about;)

He's been in the biz for quite some time now, www.brakezone.com

We stop by his shop and hang out every now and then, he knows what's up;) :D

chunky

03-05-2003, 09:45 PM

Originally posted by Will2K2
Excuse me!!!!

I really don't care a rats ass who you are, what you drive, or what you think you are.

ANY OF THE PICS I find show the "slots" facing the rear! of the car.

BTW Thanks for explaining the theories behind slotted vs drilled :p without you I wouldn't know what to do :p

If I wanted to waste my time I would explain to you the principles of fluid dynamics, how they apply to the principles of air moving around your rotor or being static near the Rotors surface, particularily what happens to air as it nears the hat.

Thank you, and have a nice day

Will

please indulge me and waste your time.

the slots have little or nothing to do with fluid dynamics. their primary purpose is to prevent the glazing of the rotor. The purpose of venting gasses that build between the pad/roter interface is not as significant anymore as today's pads do not suffer from this problem anywhere nearly as badly as older pads.

The direction of the slots has almost no impact on performance. Some people think that facing the slots forwards scrubs the pads better, but there is no proof that I have seen one way or the other.

however, the vanes (everyone has been mispelling it as veins) between the two layers of a vented rotor are directional - the air flows in from the hat of the rotor, and then out of the edge of the rotors. centriptal force at it's finest, it's basically an airpump. Directionally vaned rotors have vanes that are swept back with respect to rotation (rotor rotates forwards, vanes are curved backwards if the rotation is to the left, then the vanes curve this way // ). This helps increase the exit velocity of the air that passes between the two layers of the vented rotor.

So while slots aren't directional, the vanes are. And since you can't see the direction of the vanes (they're between the two layers) your argument is irellevant - you're arguing the direction the slots face - slots != vanes

chunky

03-05-2003, 09:49 PM

Originally posted by Will2K2
If thats a pic of the passenger side (which I think it is) than you made a major screw up.

The veins(GROOVES) in the rotor are supposed to be facing the rear of the car (NOT THE FRONT)

facing the grooves towards the front will draw air down the groove and towards the Hat(which your rotor is bolted to)

My question is this: how could you possibly have missed this, if you had the idea of doing a brake kit in the first place!!!!

W

this is the root of your misunderstanding, vanes are NOT the same as grooves. grooves/slots do NOT direct airflow - the vanes do. grooves and vanes do not have to slant in the same direction

DocofMind

03-06-2003, 09:54 AM

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid53/pf0ec5268dac50281b88ba8fe1af51d60/fc8b7131.jpg

Here is an example of a straight VANE ;) rotor and a directionally vaned rotor. The top one is obviously the straight vaned one.

The direction of these are what improves air flow, not the slots.

ortedd

03-06-2003, 10:53 AM

They (directional vanes) also increase the surface area for heat transfer to occur.

chunky

03-06-2003, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by ortedd
They (directional vanes) also increase the surface area for heat transfer to occur.

that's only true if the # of vanes between the straight vaned rotor and directionally vaned rotor are the same.

otherwise the straight vaned rotor could just have more vanes thereby increasing surface area.

Will2K2

03-06-2003, 02:10 PM

Not the vanes in the cross-section of the rotor!!!!

The grooves carved into the SURFACE of the rotor, and yes they have alot to do with (and are impacted) by fluid dynamics.

Congrats to Docof........(whatever) for being successful.

However, that doesn't automatically mean that A: he knows what he's doing or B: he sells a great product.

ie: APC are HUGELY successful!!!, do they make the best stuff out there. :p

Thanks again ;)

Will

chunky

03-06-2003, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by Will2K2
Not the vanes in the cross-section of the rotor!!!!

The grooves carved into the SURFACE of the rotor, and yes they have alot to do with (and are impacted) by fluid dynamics.

Congrats to Docof........(whatever) for being successful.

However, that doesn't automatically mean that A: he knows what he's doing or B: he sells a great product.

ie: APC are HUGELY successful!!!, do they make the best stuff out there. :p

Thanks again ;)

Will

airflow over the slots is inconsequential - so whatever fluid dynamics you'd apply is irellevant. The bulk of the cooling is due to air passing over the rotor surface (the slots are such a small portion of the surface area that you can ignore their presence in most calculations), air passing through the vents, and heat radiated to adjacent parts (wheels, caliper, etc). That is where the fluid dynamics studies yield useful results. Slotting the brakes one way or the other won't even result in 1/4 of a degree in temperature variance - that's a very small percentage of the many hundreds of degrees that a rotor endures.

in response to a), docofmind clearly knows what he's doing, i've had a debate or two with him before on brakes, and he is all that and a bag of chips when it comes to knowing his brakes. His responses, and the info he posts give him that credibility - it has nothing to do with the success of his business.

LeperCon

03-07-2003, 02:37 AM

Docofmind: I have just purchased a set of O.Z. Crono Evolution wheels in 17"x7" (+42mm). Will these clear your brakes? If so, what would be a timeframe on delivery of the brakes to Fresno and how much would shipping be. Thank you.

DocofMind

03-07-2003, 11:29 AM

Thanks for your support guys, it really means a lot. Nothing better than knowing you are appreciated by your peers ;)

DocofMind

03-07-2003, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by LeperCon
Docofmind: I have just purchased a set of O.Z. Crono Evolution wheels in 17"x7" (+42mm). Will these clear your brakes? If so, what would be a timeframe on delivery of the brakes to Fresno and how much would shipping be. Thank you.

If you send me your email address i can get you the measurements for clearance. I just checked the design of the wheel and it seems that it will be a tight fit. We just did another civic this weekend that had 17x7 OZ Superlegerras with 45mm offsets. This particular application required a 3mm spacer.

The 3 mm spacer basically makes the 45mm wheel a 42mm wheel. Im pretty sure you will be in this same ballpark. You should be able to get away without a spacer. Should be :) I can send you the info so you can be positive.

Time wise, i have been backordered on the hats for the civic. They are being finished as we speak and are off to be anodized on monday or tuesday. The latest it would arrive to you would be on Friday of next week. Shipping should run you around $35.

If you have any other questions or concerns feel free to contact me...

Sherwin
Brake Zone
1 888 820 1777