kseriesparts 6 speed kit

[wiscoep3]

Is everything needed to do the a3 6 speed conversion included in this kit, or do I have to pick up anything else? I've read about the whole reverse notching thing, or purchasing a new interlock, so that's fine. Also, are there any advantages to swapping a type-s tranny in as opposed to just adding the gear to the a3 tranny? Sorry if these questions are covered, I searched as much as I could, thanks for your help.

[mitchlikesbikes]

what benefits are you looking for? if you want the added fuel economy then the kit is better.

if you want the 6 speed for shorter gears and track use, the type s tranny will be the better choice.

[Deadphishy]

from my understanding the kit only had enough parts to replace the 6 gear in an RSX type S trans with a TSX 6th gear. You need considerably more parts to "add" a 6th gear onto a 5 speed transmission. Around 200 dollars worth.

[wiscoep3]

Thanks for the response guys. I'm just going for fuel economy at this point. I have an 80 mile commute every day and don't really have any plans for the hatch other than a daily. Mine only has 64k on it, so I hope to have it for at least a few years, and I think the gas savings will definitely pay off the 6th gear cost eventually.

The kit does say "convert base model rsx or ep3 to 6 speed", but just from the picture it doesn't look like a 100% complete kit. I suppose I'll email them and see what all is in the kit, but I just thought I'd check to see if anyone has actually purchased their kit before.

[brian1414]

also interested!!
keep us posted!!

[Deadphishy]

I would go ahead and give them a call. It does clearly state that which is new. I also think that cost a little more then the last thing they were selling. Maybe it is a new kit.

[wiscoep3]

Sent them an email yesterday, but I'm not expecting a reply until Monday. I'll let you guys know what they say! It is significantly more expensive than the cost of parts outlined here >> http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25635 so I'm very curious to see exactly what is included with the kit.

[usedep3]

you will need most of the parts from the element owners club.

http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthread.php?44807

[lemonhead228]

it is two different kits for the tsx 6.

this one is to 'replace' the 6th gear with the rsx-s a2 trans.

http://www.kseriesparts.com/cr/HON-TSX6TH.html

this one is to 'add' the 6th gear with the ep3 a3 trans.

http://www.kseriesparts.com/cr/HON-5SP-2-6SP.html

both kits are complete for each transmission if you want to add or replace the 6th gear.

[wiscoep3]

this one is to 'add' the 6th gear with the ep3 a3 trans.

http://www.kseriesparts.com/cr/HON-5SP-2-6SP.html

^This is the kit I'm asking about. Not trying to sound like a jerk, but what makes you say it's "complete" other than the site's description? Have you bought it/can you tell me exactly what parts it comes with?

Usedep3 - You seem to think the kit ISN'T complete and I should just go with the parts on the element owners page? At this point, that seems like the way to go, but now I'm just wondering why there's a $200 difference in price of the parts from Honda as opposed to the kit on kseriesparts...maybe the kit comes with something else for the swap..?

[wiscoep3]

Reply from Steve at kseriesparts:

This is a complete kit you will not need to purchase anything else. This does not come with instructions as professional installation is highly recommended

I emailed him back asking for specific part numbers and whether it comes with a 6-speed interlock or if you'll still have to modify your own, but I suppose my question is answered.

[Deadphishy]

I added up all the parts from the element website and if you include the syncros it's 484 shipped to my door. I would assume that the kseries parts doesn't include the syncros. because they are 250 dollars alone.

[larryo108]

I am curious about this. It has been a long time since I looked at this, but would love to do it for the gas mileage. Cruising at 80-mph/4,000-rpm for most of my driving ain't doing me any favors. But when I was looking at this back in the day, I thought you also needed a Buddy Club short shifter in order to utilize the stock shifter. And more importantly, you needed to have KPro, so that you could take full advantage of the 6th gear. Can anyone confirm this? Do you guys thinking about this, already have KPro?

[wiscoep3]

I got an email back from kseriesparts and this is the included list of parts with prices from Majestic:

24201-PNS-010 5-6 Gearshift Fork $48.62
24240-PNS-000 Reverse Shift Piece $36.13
24430-PNS-000 Interlock $22.60
23916-PNS-000 Dist. Collar (28x35x24) $4.29
23491-RAS-000 Countershaft 6th (TSX) $50.63
23590-RAS-A00 Mainshaft 6th (TSX) $58.31
91103-RAS-003 Needle Bearing (35x41x24) $7.78
*******90011-PDP-000 Special Bolt $4.99********** -THIS IS NOT INCLUDED IN THE KIT, BUT NEEDED FOR THE SWAP!

24210-PNS-010 3-4 Gearshift Fork $48.62
24412-PNS-000 Mainshaft Brake System Arm $11.28
23641-PPP-000 Blocking Ring $29.30
24413-PNS-000 Mainshaft Brake System Return $.84

All the above parts are included in the kseriesparts kit (except 90011-PDP-000). All the BOLD parts are the one's that are actually needed for the swap according to the elementowners thread>>>> http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25635 and another thread on k20a.org that I can't seem to find right now...

It looks like the extra parts included in the kseries kit are for the reverse lockout, which isn't a bad idea I suppose, but the trans will operate just fine without them.

Thanks for adding those up, Phish, price totals:

Kseriesparts kit --------------------------------------------------------------------- $362.00 +free shipping
All the parts included in the kseriesparts kit ordered from Majestic: $323.39 +shipping
Only the essential parts needed (bolded above) from Majestic: $233.35 +shipping

So honestly, the kseries kit is a pretty decent way to go if you want all the parts and the reverse lockout. You could probably save ~$10 ordering from Majestic, but not a ton.

[wiscoep3]

I'm pretty sure kpro is not needed for this. You're just swapping out gears, not messing with the tune or anything. I've been trying to find another thread on k20a that specifically had a guy who did the swap without the synchros and said it was running fine. I can't find the thread, but just from reading, the synchros are not needed for the swap.

[Deadphishy]

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k71/deadphishy/IMG_2795.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k71/deadphishy/K20/IMG_2792.jpg

ready for a 6th gear

[lemonhead228]

^This is the kit I'm asking about. Not trying to sound like a jerk, but what makes you say it's "complete" other than the site's description? Have you bought it/can you tell me exactly what parts it comes with?

Usedep3 - You seem to think the kit ISN'T complete and I should just go with the parts on the element owners page? At this point, that seems like the way to go, but now I'm just wondering why there's a $200 difference in price of the parts from Honda as opposed to the kit on kseriesparts...maybe the kit comes with something else for the swap..?

before crsx sold cep3 to another company, they use to have all the part number listed for each part but since they put it on kseriesparts.com they took out all the part number, sorry.

but i did double check all the parts and it was all there that were needed. pretty sure its the same kit they was selling before they sold cep3.

[Tnhatch03]

crsx sold CEP3? wow! i didn't know that!

i will be interested to see which way you go... sounds like you are doing some serious digging to get the best answer!

[thedvlsh1]

crsx sold CEP3? wow! i didn't know that!

ClubRSX.com , ClubEP3.com, and ClubILX.com were all sold to AutoGuide.com earlier this year --> http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=817955

[lemonhead228]

ClubRSX.com , ClubEP3.com, and ClubILX.com were all sold to AutoGuide.com earlier this year --> http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=817955

yea that^

thanks for clearing that up

[larryo108]

So, I could get the kseriespart kit, install it and not have to have Kpro to get the benefits? That is wicked cool and moves this further up the mod list.

[wiscoep3]

So, I could get the kseriespart kit, install it and not have to have Kpro to get the benefits? That is wicked cool and moves this further up the mod list. Yep! Throw a 4.3 final drive and an lsd in there while you have it apart and you've got a pretty sweet setup!

[Deadphishy]

well I have ordered all the parts, I will keep everyone informed. To bad my car won't be ready to run until early spring

[wiscoep3]

We'll be patiently awaiting your results. What final drive are you using btw?

[Deadphishy]

I am going to stick with the 4.7. I think a 4.3 will be to long for an NA car. It's going to be around 280whp 12.5:1 k24. Thoughts?

[wiscoep3]

Yeah, definitely stick with the 4.7 for that setup. Maybe a 4.3 if you decide to boost it, but even then the 4.7 would be fine.

[1GR8EP3]

I am going to stick with the 4.7. I think a 4.3 will be to long for an NA car. It's going to be around 280whp 12.5:1 k24. Thoughts?

Nasty set up! ... Throw some giggle juice at it and things will really get interesting haha. I agree 4.7fd for all motor

[Deadphishy]

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k71/deadphishy/020833A4-6BFD-408A-B101-645EA96ED8FE-3854-000002A5429CA56C.jpg

[Ba82Ep3]

For reference:

http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthread.php?66126-HOW-TO-6-Speed-Transmission-Rebuild

I dunno how you plan on completing the build without a synchro for 6th. Look at the rebuild thread, and you can see the spacing is critical...

[Deadphishy]

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k71/deadphishy/51CF726F-7524-4882-A30E-29CB0744EE7A-5249-000003A5B74B27FB.jpg

That syncro?

[Ba82Ep3]

Yep... should be a double cone synchro too. A double cone synchro will only work with a double cone gear... you cant interchange a triple cone synchro into a double cone gear... even if the ratio is the same... the gear is designed differently. Just pointing this out to save potential time of assembly headaches.

[Deadphishy]

Thanks,

Yes the Si 6th gear that i am using is a double cone gear. I picked up a new 2nd gear synchro from synchrotech for 2nd gear. that is a triple cone synchro. I am having a little trouble getting the counter shaft bolt loose. I know it is reverse threaded, but it is giving me a hard time.

And just for a good time i put in the new reverse lever.
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k71/deadphishy/360E58B8-8D37-49FF-9308-66FC976D1A0B-5249-000003ADC4DF0472.jpg

[Ba82Ep3]

Make sure your 1/2 sync sleeve isnt notched and ate up (its also reverse gear). If the sleeve is fuct... replacing the synchro by itself will do very little to help you out. Theres a few pix on the build thread that will show you what it SHOULDNT look like.

The reverse thread bolt, use a bench vise and two pieces of wood to hold the countershaft, and an impact gun to do work. By hand will be frustrating... but can be done. If you dont have a 14mm socket and an impact but have a 14mm allen key... use a 2.5lb hammer to smack the allen handle... if its too short for leverage, add an appropriate sized box end wrench to the allen key and smack that bish. That should get ya done right...

[Ba82Ep3]

Also... dont forget to install your spring rings. Synchros and rings for 1-2 gears are larger than synchros and rings for 3-6th gears.

EP3 trans 1-2 gears/syncs are trip cone... 3-5th are dub cone. RSX-S 6 speeds and ITR trans are trip cone 1-6th gears/syncs.

[Deadphishy]

The gear that i have is a double cone. The synchro fits on it perfectly. I was able to get the bolt off, however now the bearing won't come off. I will have to work on that tomorrow. I am looking pretty close at my second gear and i am a little worried about it. I don't drive that aggressive, but it does have some miles.

[Deadphishy]

This would be a lot easier if i was just adding the 6th gear. I Don't have a press so now i am going to have to find someone to help be press off the gears on the counter shaft so i can get to the second gear syncro. It looks like the second gear has a little wear on it so I'm deciding if a new gear set is worth the extra 300 cost.

[Ba82Ep3]

I know it can be a pain. if you cant find anyone locally you can trust to do the work... LMK and ill do it for ya. Just pay for shipping both ways and ill take care of ya.

Honestly though... i really think you could pick up a press and bearing separator and do the work yourself. Its less than $200 in tools...

[Deadphishy]

I think my dads shop has a press that I can use. So I might be alright. I'm putting the project on hold for a short bit. In 60 days I start getting a very Heavy discount on parts so I have to hold off in buying things.

[Ba82Ep3]

Roger that. LMK if i can help out tho...

[1mp4ct]

Just posted this on cep3 but figured since your pretty experienced you may be able to help me out with a couple things?

So I followed all the guides, and the package contents on Kseriesparts.com, and now that I'm assembling everything I'm curious why part 23641-PPP-000 Single cone synchro is listed as a needed part. I have everything together, and this syncro is already in my transmission...

Does anyone know the point of buying a new one? FYI, the base transmission I'm working with is absolutely mint!
With that said, the syncro I have looks fine and I can't tell a difference, and wouldn't mind returning the new one for the $30 I spent on it..

Another question I have (and there seems to be no info on what so ever) is the new needle bearings I bought, 91102-RZF-006(there are 3 of them on main shaft) are all this plastic housing, but the ones that were on my trans have a metal housing holding the needles in place. The new TSX 6th needle bearing is also a metal housing.. At first I thought Honda redesigned them for a good reason, but then seeing the metal one for the 6th makes me wonder if I should just keep the old metal needle bearings and bring back the new plastic ones.
Does anyone know which of these bearings are better? Keep in mind my old ones look and operate perfectly.

[newep]

If the syncro was fine and your comfortable leaving the old one in, then leave it in. Personally i would keep the metal cased needle bearings.
Make sure you measure the shims on both ends of the shaft. If they're out, you will have issues.

[usedep3]

I reused the syncro that was already in my 5 speed when I did my tsx 6th conversion..i regretted it the next day. The car keep popping out of 6th when I would cruise on the highway. The $30 you 'waste' might be worth not having to worry about that one gear and dropping the tranny again.

This was just my experience and may not be the norm.

[1mp4ct]

Thank you for the feedback guys!

I've been measuring everything with feeler gauges and my micrometer. Everything checks out so far. I'm making the Honda tool that's used to check thrust clearance, as well as finishing up making an arbor press from scratch.

I'm still really curious why Honda would make the needle bearings with a plastic housing now, and if they are any better/worse. I want to get the main shaft back together soon as I will be able to press on the 6th to the CS soon (with the press almost being done). It will also help me to determine if I pull ALL of the gears off the CS to replace the needle bearing (not going to if the metal ones are ok, because they are in such good shape there is more risk in messing up the shaft than leaving the bearings in..)

usedep3, when you reopened your trans and changed the syncro, did it fix the issue. I'm assuming I am asking an obvious question here, but I just want to be sure it was just that or something else you found too. Was your syncro noticeably worn compared to the new one?

[1mp4ct]

Does anyone know what number 11 shim in this diagram is actually used for?
http://cdn.revolutionparts.com/index.php?m=Acura&v=20134&i=S6M4M0502.gif&t=1366590380&r=67fca19f3139af0a2c5895f1ce5efe4236ecf5e0&f=1.7&tn=n

Once reassembled, I notice that it merely fills the gap in the 6th gear between it and the ball bearing.. since neither piece can move/rotate, and both are pressed on and cannot move, what is the need for this shim to basically rattle around in between the two??

the manual calls for .04-.1mm clearance between the shim and the bearing. Since putting mine together and fully pressing the bearing, I have 0 space between the two. The shim (AG 1.39mm from my 5 spd) fits and fills the gap perfectly. Since the manual calls for there to be a gap here, I need to get a 1.35mm shim to create the minimum clearance of .04mm. I will be buying this shim just to make it the way it's spec'd, but I seriously cannot wrap my head around the necessity of it..or why there is a need for one anyways (unless it is to ensure clearance of the outer part of 6th and the bearing since the gear has an indent close to the shaft that the shim fits in.. idk.)

Can anyone explain this to me?