Integra & Civic Type R

[Mr Sparkle]

Just a quick question...

The JDM Civic Type R has 215 HP?, 210?...someone can correct me on that. Now the JDM Integra has only 220 HP, correct? So performace wise, does the CTR take the ITR (RSX-R) to the cleaners?
I don't know the torque specs, but I thought the ITR was supposed to be the model up from the CTR. Can anyone comment on this, because there is a fair price difference between the two is there not?

Perhaps I should'nt worry since we will probably never see either.

*Also, out of curiousity, what would you prefer to come over? The ITR or the CTR? I personally would much rather see the ITR.
Then again, I am not an EP driver.

[hacim]

The CTR has a better weight to power ratio then the ITR and I have heard that the CTR is faster.

I would rather have a CTR.

[Brettnyt]

Not an EP driver? Your missin out! Go buy yourself a car.... :D

[Silver7]

personally i dont know..

but Best MOTORING did an extensive testing on teg (rsx) typeR vs CTR.

CTR beat ITR on every one of the tests ;)

[Mr Sparkle]

Haha,

I do have a car. Unfortunately it is only and EX (98) which suits me fine. I think the CTR is more for the pure racing at heart kind of people.

But I would still choose the ITR because of its on par (with CTR) power and I think it is one of the nicest looking cars out there.
Gimme gimme HoA...
http://12.239.16.150/pictures/wallpaper_rsxr/2_1024.jpg

[SubliminalSi]

The CTR is faster. But i gotta agree with you that the ITR looks fiineeeeeeeeeeee! Show-ITR Go-CTR

[glizard]

I've heard from very good sources that the ctr and rsx-r are due out in 04, most likely in the spring unlike the rest of the model year vehicles. they have yet to make the official announcement but even car and driver 3.02 isuue w/ the si/focus/gti article claims that it will come out in 04.they did not release it in the us originally because it would pull sales from the rsx-s
i can't wait because i'll trade up.i'll also stick w/ the civic because the rsx's have shitty cheap interior trim and they tend to rattle from the hatch trim and cover supports.they just aren't as nice

[95 GSR]

Originally posted by hacim
The CTR has a better weight to power ratio then the ITR and I have heard that the CTR is faster.

I would rather have a CTR.

Can u tell us how much they both weigh??????
ITR- 220hp 155tq(not sure on this one)
CTR-200hp 142tq
and from what i've heard the weight difference is about 40lbs ( CTR is lighter)

I know u guys are EP driver and rout for the EP, but u can just put a type S motor in an EP and have a CTR, thats why i would rather have the ITR come over. easier to find a Type S motor in than a ITR motor in the U.S. IMO

[glizard]

i've never checked weight spec's but i bet you can find them at honda.com worldwide site
the engine in the ctr will have the balance shaft that makes it smoother and quieter than the rsx engines
plus of couse the shifter is only in the civic and i'll die if i have to buy another car with the shifter on the floor
i'll see if i can get some info from tech line about the specs

[Suk02Si]

Originally posted by glizard
the shifter is only in the civic and i'll die if i have to buy another car with the shifter on the floor


man, that's how I feel now:D I have a hard time driving my old accord because I can't sit straight like I can in my ep. I either have to slouch a bit or move my seat so far forward that my knees hit.

[glizard]

my honda rep said the thinkng behind it was not only the retro rally design but the new thinking of ergonomics making the shifter in about the same spot as your mouse.he said that alot of the mftrs are seeing it in the designs on other cars.not necessarily on the dashboard but positioned in the same location
i think the matrix has a high shifter as well

[RMC22]

Originally posted by glizard
I've heard from very good sources that the ctr and rsx-r are due out in 04, most likely in the spring unlike the rest of the model year vehicles. they have yet to make the official announcement but even car and driver 3.02 isuue w/ the si/focus/gti article claims that it will come out in 04.they did not release it in the us originally because it would pull sales from the rsx-s
i can't wait because i'll trade up.i'll also stick w/ the civic because the rsx's have shitty cheap interior trim and they tend to rattle from the hatch trim and cover supports.they just aren't as nice

Damn it! I sure hope not. Why? Because I am stuck with my car for years and would be a jealous mofo :( Nooo CTR please.. Unless I come across some money, then I'll be first in line. How much would it be anyway in terms of ballpark? 25-30? or 20-25?

[Silver7]

wow , i wonder if they'll bring out CTR since CSI did so bad because lot of ppl didnt like the new look...

i wonder how much it'll cost..

:confused:

[RMC22]

i hope not ;)
it wouldnt be too pricey I don't think... Maybe a few k more than the si? But.. the thing is.. it would spank the RSX-S.. so.. what happens to Acura and the RSX? CTR would be cheaper than RSX-S and definitely outperform it..

[RMC22]

What I don't get though... Why the secrets? Spring 04 is coming up. No autoshow appearances, no word at dealers, no official statements. This is the reason I was afraid to buy the SI.. The rumors that the CTR was coming as an 04 car. You would think there would be more industry buzz though...

[2k2SiAutoXer]

I think Ive hard this someplace.


Oh yeah, I HAVE!

--Tom

[HokieSi]

I was talking to a VA beach acura dealer and he mentioned that in 2005 acura was getting an RSX type R and honda was going to get a Civic SiR basically the 02-03 civic with the k20a2 (type s)engine. They weren't going to call it Type-R because they didn't want to interfere with the acura brand. Get it?

Civic SiR not Type-R

Here is why i do not want a type R!!!
1. Theft
2. Insurance (anything Type-R will be a nightmare)
right now i pay $88 bucks a month full coverage $500 buck deductables on my 02 Si)
3. Get an engine swap and new wheels then you will have something in the same performance range
4. Price - don't expect it to be cheap (I swindeled my Si for 15k out the door from a dealer)
5. Jealous people - A friend of my got his brand new PY ITR keyed on every panel a month after he got it.

[95 GSR]

Originally posted by HokieSi
A friend of my got his brand new PY ITR keyed on every panel a month after he got it.

Fuckin haters!!! that sux..

[IceD out N CALI]

keyed on every panel? dayum thats jacked up

[hopeful_si]

I have heard from some very very reliable sources (head of North American Honda) that Acura will get the ITR and Honda a 200 HP Civ, not really the Type-R though. Acura is the high end version so they get the real 220 horse ITR. But the 200 horse civ will be quite a car no doubt, so we should all be happy about the future of our EP's and Honda in general for that matter.

[RMC22]

It makes the future of my ep look bleak :( Although, I guess 40 hp isnt that big of a deal since its just the simple k20a2 swap... which will be much cheaper than a new car, but will probably screw me in the end when i go to sell.

[HokieSi]

I have heard from some very very reliable sources (head of North American Honda) that Acura will get the ITR and Honda a 200 HP Civ, not really the Type-R though. Acura is the high end version so they get the real 220 horse ITR. But the 200 horse civ will be quite a car no doubt, so we should all be happy about the future of our EP's and Honda in general for that matter.

Did the person you talk to give dates?? 2005 is what I have heard. 2004 just doesn't make sense because I hasn't been hyped at all. Then again the old 99-00 civic si was only around for 2 years, so 2004 could be the date. I doubt anyone will be able to get a deal like I got on my 02 Si. :p

[NemesisITR]

Id rather have the CTR cause it is lighter and faster than the new ITR. My ITR weighs in around 2600 and the new ITR weighs in around 2965 pounds (SCC 11/02 issue). Hopefully I will never get rid of my current one. Want my 01 ITR with my ?? CTR, hehe.

[95 GSR]

Originally posted by NemesisITR
Id rather have the CTR cause it is lighter and faster than the new ITR. My ITR weighs in around 2600 and the new ITR weighs in around 2965 pounds (SCC 11/02 issue). Hopefully I will never get rid of my current one. Want my 01 ITR with my ?? CTR, hehe.

what does the 02 integra type R have thats 200lbs heavier then a type S??

Type S weighs 2,775

[StrangeShadow]

k20a2(ctr & rsx-s) + ep si = 200hp
dc5r(itr) + ep si =240hp
that's hp diff w/swap don't know torq or weight off hand but it's written down some place around here, I'll try to get it posted by sunday evening(pacific time)

[StrangeShadow]

itr = 220hp@8000 rpm, 152 ib-ft@7000rpm(<-torque)

rsx-s= 200hp@7400rpm, 142 ib-ft@6000rpm(<-torque)

rsx= 160hp@6500rpm, 141 ib-ft@4000rpm(<-torque)

ep si= 160hp@6500rpm, 132 ib-ft@5000rpm(<-torque)

ctr= 215hp@7400rpm, (THE GAY FAGS DIDN'T LIST THE TORQUE!!)
(note: my cap locks isn't stuck j/k)
stand still to 60mph in 6.4 ses.
top peed=146

ep si/dc5r=240hp (just look at my sig) and NO I don't have that.

PLUS: to all the newbies posting this, considering we have never had a JDM type R spec engine that I know of, what exactly makes
you think we will get one?
THINK: Australia got an ITR, with the honda and integra, but, like our rsx-s the engine was watered down, plus a few other intrior differences. 3 billion plus was spent developing the DC5R believe me I don't really think that they will just hand them over to us.:)

p.s. someone better read this cause it's freakin cold outside and I took 3 trips to my car getting the infoe, cause i kept forgetting stuff. :D

[NemesisITR]

95 GSR

I would think the ITR would be lighter also. I havent looked at what the Rsx weighs yet, but I always thought the new Rsx was heavier than the old GSR. So who knows.

[BlackFL2k2Si]

Well, at least I won't have to pay an arm and a leg for "authentic jdm ctr parts" like the bodykit, shift knob, and what not. But, like a lot of people on the board, I would rather just throw in a Type-S motor then have to trade in and throw in extra cash for a CTR. Just my 2 cents :D .

[02-sir]

I wish I could read Japanese. Can anybody translate these? you can still pick a lot of info from the bits that are english. Also please note that you can scroll through all the pages of these "fact books" using the green and orange arrows at the bottom of the pages. these pages are awesome, from what I can tell they give spring rates, shock damping values, not only flywheel weight but inertia as well. I guess Honda figures us "round eyes" are too stupid to understand any of this so they don't publish stuff like this for our cars.

http://www.honda.co.jp/factbook/auto/civic-r/200110/08.html

http://www.honda.co.jp/factbook/auto/INTEGRA/200107/13.html

[95 GSR]

Originally posted by NemesisITR
95 GSR

I would think the ITR would be lighter also. I havent looked at what the Rsx weighs yet, but I always thought the new Rsx was heavier than the old GSR. So who knows.

The RSX is heavier then the GSR.
GSR=2,665
RSX=2,775

oh and the DC2 type R is only 65 lbs lighter then a GSR.

[Dunrick]

Originally posted by 95 GSR


what does the 02 integra type R have thats 200lbs heavier then a type S??

Type S weighs 2,775

It doesn't that guys wrong - ITR weighs 2680 or something.....not 2900 - were talking 02 and up ITR




And as for all this type R crap, I dont think I would want one - You can make one for cheaper - and it wont be so appealing to theives - unless you put type r tags all over it and get the jdm bodykit --- Plus that isn't coming, I have a feeling the ITR might - but the CTR ... please

[NemesisITR]

All I can say is that I got my info from the November 2002 issue of Sport Compact Car. This is the issue with the 02 ITR on the front cover. If im wrong then SCC is wrong, which might be true. I like my 01 ITR better than the new one anyway. Id take the new CTR over the new ITR anyday:D

[Dunrick]

I dont see how the CTR is faster than the ITR as much as I would like it to be - it has 10 more trq....20 more hp and weighs about the same as the CTR

[NemesisITR]

Oh, and to the reply about making a Type R cause it would be cheaper than buying one: I think you are wrong (my opinion, not trying to start a fight). Yes you could get the motor, tranny, suspension, and body kit for cheaper, but you forget one thing, you cant make the actual body of the type r for cheap. you have to remember that the body is probably one of the most strongly built bodies out there. It's a race car with reinforcement here and there and weight reduction here and there, put all together to make one hell of a balanced car. I really thought about getting a GSR and making it an R, but I started looking into it and it would of cost me a lot more to make one than to buy one. So I did the smart thing, I bought one!! If you want an R, then go and spend some money and buy one. I bought the R for the R. It's not the fastest nor the quickest, but it is a hell of a lot of fun on the road course, hehe!!

[Dunrick]

Originally posted by NemesisITR
Oh, and to the reply about making a Type R cause it would be cheaper than buying one: I think you are wrong (my opinion, not trying to start a fight). Yes you could get the motor, tranny, suspension, and body kit for cheaper, but you forget one thing, you cant make the actual body of the type r for cheap. you have to remember that the body is probably one of the most strongly built bodies out there. It's a race car with reinforcement here and there and weight reduction here and there, put all together to make one hell of a balanced car. I really thought about getting a GSR and making it an R, but I started looking into it and it would of cost me a lot more to make one than to buy one. So I did the smart thing, I bought one!! If you want an R, then go and spend some money and buy one. I bought the R for the R. It's not the fastest nor the quickest, but it is a hell of a lot of fun on the road course, hehe!!

True - handling wise you cant unless its a stock R...we can make the SI handle much better than a stock R, but if the R has the same stuff we put on the Si then its the R all the way...as for speed we can make that the same - it just has a rsx-s engine, and some weight reduction and the tranny...the one thing that is probably the biggest diff is the lsd - those are pretty expensive -- dont worry, I'm not offended, we all love the Type R's


Get back to the topic of ITR being faster than the CTR (02+) I think the ITR has to be faster......discuss! heh

[S800Racer]

Originally posted by NemesisITR
All I can say is that I got my info from the November 2002 issue of Sport Compact Car. This is the issue with the 02 ITR on the front cover. If im wrong then SCC is wrong, which might be true. I like my 01 ITR better than the new one anyway. Id take the new CTR over the new ITR anyday:D

This rumor seems to make the rounds about every 6 months -- "U.S. spec CTR coming in the spring/fall of (insert year)"

I don't see it happening. Honda is not selling that many Si's to start with and would sell even fewer CTR's. On top of that, a CTR would probably steal sales from RSX.

I could be wrong. Personally, I plan to swap the K20A2 motor into my Si whether they bring the CTR or not.

[RMC22]

Originally posted by S800Racer


This rumor seems to make the rounds about every 6 months -- "U.S. spec CTR coming in the spring/fall of (insert year)"

I don't see it happening. Honda is not selling that many Si's to start with and would sell even fewer CTR's. On top of that, a CTR would probably steal sales from RSX.

I could be wrong. Personally, I plan to swap the K20A2 motor into my Si whether they bring the CTR or not.

Good point. I still can't figure out where the rumor comes from. Must just be the industry trying to create buzz and hopefully make Honda make a move. I am sure Honda realizes sales are lacking partially because of the hatchback design (that was begged for just a couple years ago mind you "Bring back the hatch! ::cry::"), but to bring those over would be quite an investment that does not seem wise after the EP3. If they brought over an CTR that looked like an SUV, however, sales would soar through the roof of this country. Sick. Oh well, I love my ep3, sucks for everyone else. :D

[S800Racer]

Originally posted by RMC22


Good point. I still can't figure out where the rumor comes from.

It probably doesn't hurt magazine sales.;)


Originally posted by RMC22
I am sure Honda realizes sales are lacking partially because of the hatchback design (that was begged for just a couple years ago mind you "Bring back the hatch! ::cry::"), but to bring those over would be quite an investment that does not seem wise after the EP3. Oh well, I love my ep3, sucks for everyone else. :D

I love the hatchback design. I wanted the extra storage & rear seat room. Otherwise, I would have cut a pretty good deal on a RSX-S. I still want the K20A2 though. :p
If Honda had developed a U.S. CTR at the same time as the Si, They could have done it for a lot less than it will cost to do it now. Wish they had, I would have bought one.

[95 GSR]

It think Honda should wait on bring the CTR. First they need to sale enough SIs then they should bring a US spec CTR.

Also a good idea would be to sale the CTR, only for the last year of the EP body,(like in 5 or so year when they come out with a new design, they should sale the CTR for that last year). You know....

[craig]

One big difference between the civic VS integra ( rsx for you USDM people ) is that the civic Si does not get the REAL v-tec ....meaning that the integra has it on the [ intake ] & the [exhaust ] stroke not just intake.


any honda civic or integra (RSX) "type-r" will have vtec on both..



just my 2 :) :)




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