Full Suspension Help needed!!

[obsoletearturo]

Okay guys i've got a 2002 EP3 and i want to do a full or at least 70 to 80 percent suspension set up.

So Far Bought:
Koni Sport Shocks; Front and Rear
Blox Subframe Hard Collar Kit

Buying soon:
Ground Control Coilover Conversion with a spring rate of; Front: 450lb Rear: 560lb
Skunk2 Rear Lower Control Arms
Progress Rear Sway Bar Adjustable
Progress Front Sway Bar
Energy Suspension Bushing Kit
Buddy Club Roll Center Adjusment Ball Joint
Blox Spherical Front LCA Bearing Kit

Suggestions For????
Camber Kit
End Links
Caster Plates
Tie Rod Ends
A Camber Kit, i don't know which one, i was thinking HardRace I was also planning on getting Hotchkis End Links Front And Rear so would if i do that would i not need new Tie Rod Ends? If i would then what would you all recommend? Also, what else would you guys recommend? I wanted to Add A Caster Plate as well but i don't know which would work.

Wheel/Tire Set up
Front: 17x9+35/ 245/40R17 With a -3.2 Camber
Rear: 17x7.5+45/ 225/45R17 With a -2.8 Camber

[Powers]

Don't bother with the front progress sway bar your stock will do just fine. You need a bigger rear sway to help get rid of understeer.

[obsoletearturo]

Bigger than that Progress adjustable??

[AKEP]

function 7 lca
dont need front sway
hardrace bushings unless you want to keep greasing your energy sus
look around at buddyclub rca posts. i'd say hardrace again, unless you get jdm dc5r lca's, then stay buddy club for those..
check out if there are any reviews on the blox sphericals, PCI's have been provent beyond 100k miles so far with no maintenance.

ingals camber kit or SPC, and/or ebay top hat camber kit for rsx
diy adjustable endlinks
todds caster plates are the only castor plates i know of, otherwise its pci offset bushings instead of normal sphericals.

[obsoletearturo]

AKEP;i kinda don't really wanna do diy endlinks, which are good that i could just install? where would i buy todds caster plates?

[Hasbro]

Hey Akep, good to know that PCIs last that long.

Obsolete, the only caster plate available is Todd's, which are gorgeous. The big drawback is, using them with Konis, you lose 3/4" of travel. The EP doesn't have much travel stock so if you drop it at all you'll need some very stiff springs....

[obsoletearturo]

Hasbro, are the eibach's that come with the ground control coilover's good enough? did you also notice the front to rear spring ratio? where would i get the todd's?

[Hasbro]

Hasbro, are the eibach's that come with the ground control coilover's good enough? did you also notice the front to rear spring ratio? where would i get the todd's?

Eibach's are very good quality. There are better but I would gladly use them. I have them on my rears for the time being until I know exactly what weight to go with. Are national titles won on them? Ye, but not with an EP, lol.

What are you asking re. front/rear ratio?

What do you want from your EP? What % daily driver/ commuter, autox, track ? Supension is very complicated and there are a million ways to go.


Todd's plates;

http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=665014

http://www.dvrace.com/

[Hasbro]

I'm going to jump the gun and make some observations re. spring ratio based on your comment of 70-80% suspension set up. I'm not an engineer or expert on suspensions. Just a somewhat obsessive hobbyist. There are other ways to go about this and there are qualified others on here with their own opinions. Maybe Zzyzyx will get on here and straighten me out!

As Akep mentioned, skip the aftermarket front bar. And the rear lca. The front spherical is a great idea, as much caster as you can get. No rush on that, though. Hard rubber bushings over Energy Suspension.

Springs; If you don't know what hertz (hz.) is, don't worry about it for now. Your 460front/560r springs are at 2.25f/2.05 hz. Perfect. If reversed. 2.05f/2.25 or 2.3 would be theoretically in line with the most commonly accepted area for RSX/EP set ups. I'm not referring to the total of the numbers but referring to the.25 to.3 difference. Lots of generalizing here! 460/560 could be made to work fine but why not get them right from the start? By the way, these hertz numbers are suggesting the use of Extreme Performance Summer tires. Anything less might not fully utilize these hertz numbers. The first and utmost suspension mod is your tires. You are solidly getting into your 70-80% target now.

So, 460front requires a rear spring of about 850-1200 lbs. rear. Yeah, see where this is going? Goodbye Koni Sports for one, goodbye street ride for another. Some people will disagree with me on this, heavy springs are popular. SHG_EasyE has heavy springs and he's one of, if not the most knowledgeable professional builders in the EP realm. Apples and oranges, though.

Let's reverse it. 560 rears/2.05 hz. puts the correct fronts at about 300lbs/1.8hz. Stock is about 1.65/1.8hz. iirc. 560/300 is a little soft for 80% but maybe 70%? Nice street ride that handles well and can be autoxed for a little fun. Which might be enough for you, dunno, just rambling along here. And that means a 3/4" drop would be ok.

How about something in the middle? 2.03/2.35 hz. gives you 400/750 lb. springs. Mustclimb made the assessment that 400 front and I can't remember the rear number but probably around 750, was about max for street comfort. I agree. I'm trying to build the best cornering streetable EP possible and, although my car is much lighter, it's springs would equal about 375 front/700 rear I think on a stock weight EP. I'll have to double check for the rears. Doesn't matter as I'll go a little higher due to increased track, camber/caster, and wider tires (9.5").

I'll stop here. There are tons of good reading material on these boards and elsewhere. Just ask and we'll provide you with more than enough info!

'Night,
Hasbro

[obsoletearturo]

btw im trying to just use it as a daily driver with some spirited driving as well as taking it on the track once or twice a year

[AKEP]

AKEP;i kinda don't really wanna do diy endlinks, which are good that i could just install? where would i buy todds caster plates?

well diy endlinks are the same adjustable endlinks that corsport sells, and they cost about $40 for all 4 corners, shipped. you can't beat that. you need adjustable endlinks if you want adjustable suspension because hopefully, eventually, you will get corner balanced so that your ride is level as can be with you in the car so that way your suspension is somewhat predictable in every corner and able to maximize grip no matter which way you're turning. since all 4 corners will be slightly different heights after corner weighting, the enlinks need to be different lengths to keep the sway bar level and not preloaded. non adjustable end links are even length and will cause the sway bar to twist during adjustments, throwing your balance off. probaly the easiest, cheapest mod you can do compared to what you're trying to do already.

[obsoletearturo]

Where would i be able to buy them? For a good price

[Hasbro]

btw im trying to just use it as a daily driver with some spirited driving as well as taking it on the track once or twice a year

All of that gobbledegoock was just to show you how the spring sizes related. Your original numbers aren't very well matched. They will sell whatever springs you want. I would recommend 336 front / 650 rear for a good all around match. 350 to 375lbs. front / 650 to 700 rear for a little more performance.

Those would be good for a small drop, say 3/4".

The good thing about stock weight is the four corner weights are a known fact. When weight is pulled off it's hard to know the actual weights without actually weighing the car. Usually the rear loses a much higher percentage. Just rambling and having fun.:mbiggrin:

[obsoletearturo]

If im using the koni sports hasbro and im gonna go with 650 then im gonna have to get the rear ones revalved

[Hasbro]

Good point. Didn't get that far. 336/575 is fine. Spring hertz tells you where to start. Your adding a heavier rear bar so that will keep things in line and allow the use of Konis. Good choice on the rear bar as it's adjustable. I think it's the only one available.

[obsoletearturo]

See thats why i said 450/560 lol. You think i go push it to 575 without revalving?

[Hasbro]

Yes. I still think 460 is a little high for a street set up. Again, my opinion.


Edit; For the street I like a softer spring for ride comfort/smoothness. A bar is good on the street because it adds "extra spring weight" when it's needed; in the corners.

[obsoletearturo]

Where can i buy all 4 endlinks from corsport besides corsport website

[obsoletearturo]

should i do a different camber kit other than ingals or spc because im gonna be doing a -3.2 on the front

[obsoletearturo]

im guessing that this is the FUNCTION 7 LCA http://www.hybrid-racing.com/store/function-7-rear-lower-control-arms-for-88-95-civic-crx-del-sol-and-94-01-integra.html?id=215&category=%3F&Year=27&Make=27&Model=67&Trim=297&Engine=977 Should i do the option they offer? Upgrade bushings to spherical bearings? Or should i just use all of the HARDRACE bushings for everything?

[AKEP]

Where can i buy all 4 endlinks from corsport besides corsport website
http://www.7thgenhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22770

should i do a different camber kit other than ingals or spc because im gonna be doing a -3.2 on the front
ebay rsx camber top hat, whoever makes it is the only person that makes it, and only sells on ebay. works for ep3. add that with camber bolts. you want to adjust camber bolts first before the top hats.

im guessing that this is the FUNCTION 7 LCA http://www.hybrid-racing.com/store/function-7-rear-lower-control-arms-for-88-95-civic-crx-del-sol-and-94-01-integra.html?id=215&category=%3F&Year=27&Make=27&Model=67&Trim=297&Engine=977 Should i do the option they offer? Upgrade bushings to spherical bearings? Or should i just use all of the HARDRACE bushings for everything?
if you're going spherical front, i'd throw those in the rear too. i'll be getting those myself one day. idk what people talk about spherical not being dd safe, mine are fine.

[obsoletearturo]

also for the HARDRace bushing kit im guessing i gotta use the rsx one? http://www.buyhardrace.com/product/hardrace-suspension-bushing-kit-18-pcs-02-06-rsx-us-spec_160.html

[obsoletearturo]

I can't find the damn tophat, i was thinking hard race rear camber kit but what about for the fronts?

[Powers]

I have function 7 lower tie bar and lca's but with the poly bushings. After I get the knuckle base bears and trailing arms spherical ill upgrade them to spherical bearings.

[obsoletearturo]

so many things goddamn, lol. i really hope that the 234 dollar price tag for the function 7 is for the rear pair lol

[Powers]

so many things goddamn, lol. i really hope that the 234 dollar price tag for the function 7 is for the rear pair lol

That's just for the lca's. the lower tie bar was another 250 or so.

[obsoletearturo]

well i was planning on using the adjustable rear progress sway bar which has a tie bar

[obsoletearturo]

hypothetically you could do a function 7 lca with a subframe brace they sell along with the progress adjustable sway bar right? lol probably super unnecessary doing all of that

[Powers]

You could do that but I have heard that the progress tie bar isn't really that nice of a piece.

[Hasbro]

should i do a different camber kit other than ingals or spc because im gonna be doing a -3.2 on the front

How did you arrive at -3.2?

[obsoletearturo]

i cross referenced wheel and tire set up as well as spring set up and thats what i thought seemed best.

[obsoletearturo]

so whats a good adjustable rear sway bar then?

[obsoletearturo]

27rocks on ephatch.com had a similar set up etc. im trying to do reversed staggered.

http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthread.php?62681-4x100-Reverse-Staggered-Wheel-Setup&highlight=staggered

[obsoletearturo]

Also since ill be 5 lug any suggestions for brakes?

[poeticfinesse21]

Hawk HPS pads, some BLANK rotors (no slotted or drilled), ATE super blue or amsoil 600 brake fluid and stainless steel brake lines....or a wilwood BBK. I would recommend not doing the reverse staggered setup for a daily driven car cuz you won't be able to rotate your tires. Just go 225, 235 or 245 all around. And progress sways are overpriced for the quality, OEM 21mm or cusco 25mm FTW....

[obsoletearturo]

Only reason i would do the reverse staggered is because i have more than one set of tires. Haa

[obsoletearturo]

Can i use this on the rear? And if i can then on the front what should i use?

[poeticfinesse21]

I was talking about the front brakes and the rear sway bar. Leave the front sway bar stock and the rear brakes will be fine with any ceramic pad. The front brakes do like 90% of the work anyway.

[obsoletearturo]

Whats ur set up?

[poeticfinesse21]

Look on my profile for my full list of mods. I'll have the same brake setup that I suggested to you by the end of the summer. Remember though, all that money on fancy brakes means nothing without a good set of summer and/or winter tires.

[obsoletearturo]

oh i'll have good tires, lol i need your opinion though, im looking to go 5 lug so what would i need to do? obliviously i agree with you about just some blank rotors and just some good pads but what else would i have to do? the axles as well? im currently at 4 lug with all four brake rotors and pads which i will replace.

[obsoletearturo]

so i can use these http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/brakes.jsp?make=Hawk&model=Quiet+Slot+Rotors&group=Quiet+Slot+Rotors&partNum=HUS522&autoMake=Honda&autoModel=Civic+Si+Hatchback&autoYear=2002&autoModClar= on my stock existing axles? with some hawk pads? with my stock calipers?

[mussh]

i just put moog tie rods on my car this weekend.

they are "problem solvers". i am very pleased with the way my car is handling.

[obsoletearturo]

i hear those are good tie rods. i've already got the corsport ones though

[obsoletearturo]

i guess my question would be if im going from 4 lug to 5 lug what would i have to do?

[poeticfinesse21]

For the front you'll need, both front knuckles (with calipers and rotors obviously) from either a 04-05 EP3, RSX base or RSX-S. If you use RSX-S knuckles then you'll need RSX-S axles. For the rear I believe all you need is a 5-lug hub and rotors. The rear calipers are the same.

[obsoletearturo]

Im know someone selling an 06 rsx type s 5 lug conversion would i need the sensor? And should i just pick up a stainless steel brake line or just use the one from the type s?

[poeticfinesse21]

Which sensor? If you use 05-06 RSX-S knuckles then you'll need the front LCA's too because the ball joints are different and won't fit into the EP3 LCA's. As far as the brake lines, it's really up to you. If you're already swapping out your stock brakes then you might as well but that's just my opinion

[obsoletearturo]

so i need to add the type s 06 front control arm as well? because i was planing on getting buddy club ball joints anyway. so could i just get the buddy club ball joints or do i need the front lower control arm from the 06 type s as well?

[obsoletearturo]

if i just drop down to 16" ill try and run the rest of my set up the same

[obsoletearturo]

you all have been helpful, dumping progress sway bar, skunk2 lower control arms, and energy suspension bushings. going with function 7 and hardrace and cusco instead