PDA

View Full Version : ITR Front Subframe Brace question



EP3Lov3
07-31-2013, 06:47 AM
I've been looking into the front sub-frame brace upgrade from the ITR, how much will if affect over-steer/under-steer? I'm happy with how my car is setup now, it's almost neutral, just a bit more over-steer than under-steer though :mwink: Will steering be better? I feel like the steering on the car is kind of loose.... Would this pair well with an EM2 front sway bar? Or am I better off with the stock front sway? thanks!

poeticfinesse21
07-31-2013, 08:18 AM
I have it Peter and I felt like it made the steering and general front end feel tighter.

EP3Lov3
07-31-2013, 10:09 AM
I have it Peter and I felt like it made the steering and general front end feel tighter.

I might go pick one up today or tomorrow, my buddy is parting out a Type S, let me know if you want anything from it. Did you notice a huge improvement?

Hasbro
07-31-2013, 10:38 AM
I've been looking into the front sub-frame brace upgrade from the ITR, how much will if affect over-steer/under-steer? I'm happy with how my car is setup now, it's almost neutral, just a bit more over-steer than under-steer though :mwink: Will steering be better? I feel like the steering on the car is kind of loose.... Would this pair well with an EM2 front sway bar? Or am I better off with the stock front sway? thanks!

Curious, what's your suspension set up? Condition of bushings? What kind of tires? Alignment?

Edit; ok, I remember you. You have a pretty advanced set up so the fine tuning is where you are now. This is where the Zman shines so hopefully he'll tune in. Still interested in drop, alignment, bushings, tire pressures. Did you get a tire temp gauge? RS3s are a really nice tire but isn't renowned for sidewall stiffness. That could be some of what you're feeling even though they are Extreme Summers and can do a great job.

EP3Lov3
07-31-2013, 11:21 AM
Curious, what's your suspension set up? Condition of bushings? What kind of tires? Alignment?

Edit; ok, I remember you. You have a pretty advanced set up so the fine tuning is where you are now. This is where the Zman shines so hopefully he'll tune in. Still interested in drop, alignment, bushings, tire pressures. Did you get a tire temp gauge? RS3s are a really nice tire but isn't renowned for sidewall stiffness. That could be some of what you're feeling even though they are Extreme Summers and can do a great job.


Drop: not sure but definitely within proper height for handling, about 1 finger gap all around

Alignment: -1.5 Camber front -.75 camber rear
1/32nd toe in rear
0 toe front
stock bushings
32 psi all around
Tires: 225/45/17 Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric (i got a stupid good deal, $330 after mail in rebate:mbiggrin:)

Hasbro
07-31-2013, 11:58 AM
Drop: not sure but definitely within proper height for handling, about 1 finger gap all around

Alignment: -1.5 Camber front -.75 camber rear
1/32nd toe in rear
0 toe front
stock bushings
32 psi all around
Tires: 225/45/17 Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric (i got a stupid good deal, $330 after mail in rebate:mbiggrin:)

I'll wager you already have your suspicions. If you don't mind, what do you think might be a factor(s) re. your "loose" steering?

EP3Lov3
07-31-2013, 12:00 PM
Not sure really, I just wish I had tighter feel and more responsive, meaning having to turn the wheel less but the wheels turn more. Anyways, what do you think of the bar Hasbro? I can get one for pretty cheap

Hasbro
07-31-2013, 12:37 PM
Not sure really, I just wish I had tighter feel and more responsive, meaning having to turn the wheel less but the wheels turn more. Anyways, what do you think of the bar Hasbro? I can get one for pretty cheap

Waste of time. For where your car is, it's just bling. If you want it, get it for yourself, not the car. Which is fine but I don't see it enhancing your handling. It could also increase the loose steering due to the increased stiffness of the chassis by transferring more energy to the tires and bushings! And suspensions are all about transferal of energy.

It appears from previous threads you have a pretty decent suspension but it can be way better.

1. The most important aspect of your suspension is your weakest. Tires. Your GoodYears are a nice, comfortable, decent handling tire for a Max Performance Summer tire. They probably make the Buddy Clubs tolerable on your crappy streets. Any of the top five Extreme Summers will transform your loose steering and handling. If you do anything, change your tires.

2. One finger gap means you are too low for the basic suspension design of the EP. Raise it up 1/4 - 1/2 " or install roll center adjusters. Or as I like to call them; taller ball joints that cost 3x too much.

3. Stock bushings. Poetic suggested harder rubber bushings. Period.

There are several other things such as toe, damper settings, and psi but until you at least change tires they aren't worth discussing. Well, you could increase tire pressure of your current tires.

EP3Lov3
07-31-2013, 01:34 PM
Thanks Hasbro! Your info is always appreciated and I've already learned a lot from you. Looks like it's time to raise the car then! (I hate messing with ride height) If I were to get bushings, should I get a whole kit? Or only to replace certain ones?

Hasbro
07-31-2013, 02:03 PM
I'm a hypocrite about bushings as I've only replaced the front lca bushings with the harder rubber ones that came with the Type R lca. They are a bitch and I'm lazy. If you are willing to do the work, replace every one possible. The ES kit would be the most economical but you can also do the harder rubber ones.

The front lca bushings really improved steering feel.

poeticfinesse21
07-31-2013, 06:00 PM
Waste of time. For where your car is, it's just bling. If you want it, get it for yourself, not the car. Which is fine but I don't see it enhancing your handling. It could also increase the loose steering due to the increased stiffness of the chassis by transferring more energy to the tires and bushings! And suspensions are all about transferal of energy.

Hasbro we're talking about the stock subframe brace from the 05-06 RSX-S. It's considerably thicker than ours and looks just like our stock one so it's definitely not just bling lol. I'm sure Honda put it there for a reason. I definitely felt a difference when I installed it although nothing crazy.

As far as the bushings, I'm in the same boat. I just noticed this weekend when I was changing my brakes that my stock LCA bushings are finally completely torn :mfrown:
I've been debating buy some hardrace hardened rubber bushings and going through the hassle of removing the stock LCA's (which I'm sure will destroy the end links in the process) and then taking them to a shop to press in the new bushings or just replacing the whole LCA with a new one that comes with new stock bushings. Decisions.....

EP3Lov3
07-31-2013, 09:29 PM
Orlando, let me know when you want those bushings pressed in, I could ask a good friend of mine to do it for you

Hasbro
07-31-2013, 09:31 PM
Hasbro we're talking about the stock subframe brace from the 05-06 RSX-S. It's considerably thicker than ours and looks just like our stock one so it's definitely not just bling lol. I'm sure Honda put it there for a reason. I definitely felt a difference when I installed it although nothing crazy.

As far as the bushings, I'm in the same boat. I just noticed this weekend when I was changing my brakes that my stock LCA bushings are finally completely torn :mfrown:
I've been debating buy some hardrace hardened rubber bushings and going through the hassle of removing the stock LCA's (which I'm sure will destroy the end links in the process) and then taking them to a shop to press in the new bushings or just replacing the whole LCA with a new one that comes with new stock bushings. Decisions.....

Admittedly 'Don't waste your time' may sound harsh and dogmatic. I understand and agree that it's a good mod but there are several other things that are way more important. He has coilovers that are perhaps beyond the level of his tires so they can't be fully utilized. Chassis stiffening is about the last thing to do and will enhance performance levels by a minute amount comparatively. Poetic, you have a well tuned suspension iirc, so it's a viable endeavor on your part. I just don't think it's a priority for EP3Love. For instance, I bought my Corbeau pretty much for me. The performance returns are minute but I had to have it, lol.



Edit; changing the front lca bushings definitely improved the steering feel by a good margin. Changing to track tires was an even bigger improvement in feel.