Ingall's Stiffy, random question...

[tinman5]

I was doing some cleaning yesterday and had a thought. What is the average lifespan of the Ingall's strut/shock absorber thing? I have had mine installed for about 3 years give or take a month, installed with esmm inserts. There is no visible leakage and still has pretty good resistance. But then it is pretty hot under the hood and Texas in general. I have observed engine movement is pretty limited but there is a jerk when going from cruise to hammer down. At the high end of the taco-meter on the dyno the engine leaned back a good inch which I guess is not too bad considering what I am running.
Just curious.

[mussh]

it was my understanding that those were to help stop wheel hop.

does it?

[tinman5]

Good question. Wheel hop was drastically reduced over plain Jane mounts. However hard off the line drag style starts will still net some hop with sticky tires. I generally dont accelerate out the hole like that as a rule, but after installing the CC clutch kit there was a slight learning curve on my end. Of course keep in mind I freshened all suspension shortly after the A2 swap, so I am sure the new bushings, Teins and balljoints also help.
That said, the driveline feels great. Minimal vibration, crisp shifting (via BCSS, aluminum cable bushings) responsive to input be it throttle, clutch or brake. I will more than likely upgrade to real mounts along the Innovative or Hasport line when I get around to installing an lsd and fresh clutch though.

[lemonhead228]

The stiffy acts as extra support for the motor mounts. If you get new after market mounts the stiffy is useless since the motor isn't rocking back and front like they do with stock mounts.

Yes upgrading mounts will reduce wheel hop so the stiffy itself will do the same. Putting on ESMM will make a drastic difference.

Not sure how the longevity of the stiffy is since I haven't own one

[tinman5]

I only briefly considered full on mounts initially, however between the swap, suspension and 5 lug conversion the old checking account dropped much faster than I could replenish in that 2 month span. The es inserts were only $25 and some kid totalled his Type S before installing some stuff. Picked up the stiffy for $60 new in box and $20 for the rear sway bar.

[mussh]

The stiffy acts as extra support for the motor mounts. If you get new after market mounts the stiffy is useless since the motor isn't rocking back and front like they do with stock mounts.


I put avid 60 motor mounts on with my swap. nice look and I have zero wheel hop issues.
the other day I was entering the freeway from a frontage road and it was alittle damp. now I usually don't do this but I wanted to see if I could. there was no one on this road I was in second gear at about 30 and gassed it good, the front wheels broke loose. I didn't hold down on the throttle, but just gooseing it, I was spinning in second to 60 mph. I grabbed third and kept goosing. sure enough I was breaking loose at 80+. I put it in fourth and cruised after. I guess my point is, I had zero wheel hop while I was doing it and it was fun to do a 1/4 mile burn out.
guess I don't need the extra tq dampener, cus I was thinking of getting one.

[bemmis]

Minimizing engine movement isn't just for wheel hop....

People who drive fast in turns, and don't just launch/drag like alot of members, notice engine movement all the time. Modulating the throttle is necessary to keep grip up front in order to transfer weight rearward. Having engine movement causes a delay between when you go on or off the throttle, and when it is felt at the wheels, because wheel movements will stretch the mounts before the energy is transferred to the engine, and vice-versa. It effects the feel of heel-toe, shifting... any time lots of force is being transferred between the engine and wheels. The interface between the engine and chassis is critical to going fast for that reason.

Engine mounts need to find a compromise between absorbing vibrations, and transferring power. Vibrations only cause the engine to move back/forth a mm or two, but forces from the wheels can move it way more. Therefore the ideal mount design would have progressive rates of stiffness. i.e. a small amount of soft material to absorb tiny movements like vibrations, but the majority of it stiff for wheel movements. or different stiffnesses for each mount according to load.

Most of the vibrations are transferred to the chassis where most of the weight of the motor is being supported: the rear mount. A toque damper doesn't support any weight, therefore the design and function don't need to be compromised like with engine mounts to reduce engine vibration. Also it's location at the top of the engine is ideal, because that is the farthest point from the axle which is where engine movement caused by the wheels originates, plus is a spot that moves usually only under heavy wheel loads. Imagine the engine like a lever: the farther you go from the axle/pivot, the more movement there is.

So a torque damper will make a way bigger difference in lap times than 1/4 times.

As for durability it is a rubber bushing/bumper inside the TD; it isn't pneumatic like what helps you lift the hatch. Rubber wears out, but because it's enclosed in a tube, plus is only compressed, and on 1 axis, rather than stretched and twisted like motor mounts, it probably lasts longer, even though there's less rubber than on mounts.

[USAF EP3]

Minimizing engine movement isn't just for wheel hop....

People who drive fast in turns, and don't just launch/drag like alot of members, notice engine movement all the time. Modulating the throttle is necessary to keep grip up front in order to transfer weight rearward. Having engine movement causes a delay between when you go on or off the throttle, and when it is felt at the wheels, because wheel movements will stretch the mounts before the energy is transferred to the engine, and vice-versa. It effects the feel of heel-toe, shifting... any time lots of force is being transferred between the engine and wheels. The interface between the engine and chassis is critical to going fast for that reason.

Engine mounts need to find a compromise between absorbing vibrations, and transferring power. Vibrations only cause the engine to move back/forth a mm or two, but forces from the wheels can move it way more. Therefore the ideal mount design would have progressive rates of stiffness. i.e. a small amount of soft material to absorb tiny movements like vibrations, but the majority of it stiff for wheel movements. or different stiffnesses for each mount according to load.

Most of the vibrations are transferred to the chassis where most of the weight of the motor is being supported: the rear mount. A toque damper doesn't support any weight, therefore the design and function don't need to be compromised like with engine mounts to reduce engine vibration. Also it's location at the top of the engine is ideal, because that is the farthest point from the axle which is where engine movement caused by the wheels originates, plus is a spot that moves usually only under heavy wheel loads. Imagine the engine like a lever: the farther you go from the axle/pivot, the more movement there is.

So a torque damper will make a way bigger difference in lap times than 1/4 times.

As for durability it is a rubber bushing/bumper inside the TD; it isn't pneumatic like what helps you lift the hatch. Rubber wears out, but because it's enclosed in a tube, plus is only compressed, and on 1 axis, rather than stretched and twisted like motor mounts, it probably lasts longer, even though there's less rubber than on mounts.

Dude the way you talk about the things you know reminds me of Zzyzx and his suspension talk..

I love people like you!

[Ubeyo]

so i ran into some issues with my install... tried to do it today but reallized off other forums and ingalls etd install threads that i had a one difference from a k20a3 since i have a k24a1 swap... first issue is the mount on the strut tower base is super close to the valve cover. (installed it just cause i didnt want to have to remove my strut tower bar... and actually knocks it... so i took it off.) Second is the stud you thread the bolt on closest to the front bumper isnt a thread its a bolt! and its a bolt that needs alot of torque to break... so i need a cheeter pipe which i dont got to break it loose. heres some pics. for the most part my test fit was pretty dam close to fitting so yee check it out.

first: look at that clearance!
http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i448/UbeYoMe/IMG_5636_zpsbba78364.jpg
second: its the one near the belt
http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i448/UbeYoMe/IMG_5638_zpsda273065.jpg