My Hondata impressions....

[Az02Si]

Um....BUY IT NOW!!!!!! I just threw my ecu back in my car,and went for a drive....WOW!!!!! The extra revs were REALLY needed with thius motor.3-4 upshift occurs at about 87-89 mph,and the car REALLY feels alive up top now too.It feels like a stretched,smooth powerband with a few extra ponies thrown in the mix....Im VERY happy,and will provide dynocharts ASAP.IMHO,ANYONE who can afford it should just get it..It WILL be a must have for these cars.It reminds me of my old b16 now,watching the tach go to 7800ish:'( Ill post more impressions shortly,i gotta DRIVE!!!!! Thanks to the crew at Hondata for a GREAT product that everyone will love!

[gpt]

Heh Heh, so you like it I guess?:D

How'd you get it so quick?

[Az02Si]

Im kinda like a beta tester i guess,LOL.I sent them the ECU a week ago,and recieved it back today.I had been talking to Matt at hondata for a couple weeks beforehand about it....

[fishboy]

hell yeah. must... save... money...

the only thing i'm scared of is what happens if our ecu gets lost in the mail? we're screwed.:(

[Jpax]

Originally posted by fishboy
hell yeah. must... save... money...

the only thing i'm scared of is what happens if our ecu gets lost in the mail? we're screwed.:(

Don't worry little buddy, thats when you sick your devil doll on them and your ECU shows up the next day.:D

[chakra71]

i'm just not impressed yet. Six hundred dollars is 1/5 of the way to a k20a2 with a tranny and by the time i could afford the whole thing (cash, i don't do credit) the price for the new motor should have dropped a good bit. yeah i'll get it done, but to the A2 or ITR/CTR flash. I'm happy enough with the motor as it is to wait for the full monty.

anyone that lives in the southeast needs to call me at work and open new checking/saving/cd/investment accounts to help with the A2 fund! 1-800-CALL-STB. (southtrust bank)

seriously, i'll hook you up as best i can.

pm or email for more details.

[JSIR]

Brett, so what is the real redline, 7500 ?, as you are seeing 7800 on the tach. What kind of gains do you think it represents, 10 hp at peak ?, more , less, as an estimate.

any info is cool.

Joey

[Az02Si]

Joey....To ME im guessing(GUESSING) 8-10 peak and at least 5lbs/ft through the midrange.The car is VERY smooth feeling now,and to ME it sure as hell feels like its making power clear till an indicated 7800 Rpm(prolly really more like 7600ish IMHO)Personally,the 2 things that i HATED about this car have been resolved....Higher rev limit,and NO topend power at all.I have TOTAL confidence that my friends pesky B16s wont be pulling past me in third gear anymore...Now i can hold that gear as long as they can ;) All in all im VERY happy,and while it MAY be a tad pricey for some,%99.( of EP owners will LOVE this program.Joey,any more questions feel free to IM me(PenixB16) or PM me here or on CSi....I still have to do a writeup over there in the NA forum......

[IceD out N CALI]

nice write up Az02SI, i'm gonna have to save up for this. hope u hit the track soon too, i'd like to see the 1/4 mile times with hondadata

[CleanBlackSi02]

I MUST know if Hondata allows us to finish the 1/4 mile in third gear. Get to the track ASAP. :D

[ChurchAutoTest]

Joey, I know when we driving An's car, we were shifting at an indicated 8000 rpm with the 7700 limiter. The tach reads horrendously high as the OBDII readout was much lower.

SC


Originally posted by JSIR
Brett, so what is the real redline, 7500 ?, as you are seeing 7800 on the tach. What kind of gains do you think it represents, 10 hp at peak ?, more , less, as an estimate.

any info is cool.

Joey

[ssvr6]

Originally posted by CleanBlackSi02
I MUST know if Hondata allows us to finish the 1/4 mile in third gear. Get to the track ASAP. :D

Yes! I must know as well!

Steve

[02SiHB]

For the same price you can get an NX kit and have a nice little Nitrous swap. Hondada isn't worth the $$$ for that little extra bit... Now if you're REALLY serious about tuning, I'd save and get AEM EMS... Just my input

[CleanBlackSi02]

Originally posted by 02SiHB
For the same price you can get an NX kit and have a nice little Nitrous swap. Hondada isn't worth the $$$ for that little extra bit... Now if you're REALLY serious about tuning, I'd save and get AEM EMS... Just my input
Personally, I just want to be able to run 15 second flat quarter miles and have a little extra boost on my daily drive. Nitrous isn't on all the time, but I may consider it for the track... Of course I'd have to pick which one I want. Hmmmm...

[chunky]

if the hondata was 395, it'd be a no brainer to get it.

but b/c it's 595, does not have extensive testing as to wether the 7700 rev limit is safe for the long term, and does not have well established gains yet It's not worth it IMO.

The price is what's holding it back. I would seriously rather save just a bit more and get a fully programmable ECU that offers way more control over the maps than the hondata does.

While it does appear to be a promising product, 595 is too much at this point, maybe once certain issues like performance with mods and engine longevitiy are verified, the price hondata is demanding would work out.

but then again, maybe they're keeping the prices high so that the demand doesn't exceed their ability to produce. . . b/c at 395$, I could easily see them getting backlogged on these things. . .

[02SiHB]

Chunky, you hit the nail on the head.

[Hondata]

I am not aware of any programable system that can control the VTC (variable cam timing) at this point in time. No EMS I am aware of yet can pass the newer smog tests where the smog testing station plugs into the OBD II scan tool port to check the computer's emissions status.

To get an EMS to the same level of refinement; starting quality, idle quality, fuel quality compensation at all altitudes and temperatures would require the same level of investment that Honda have made - millions. Not to mention the engine's ULEV emissions standards. To get to the same level of power from a base EMS is going to cost many hundreds of dollars in dyno time.

The K series engine computer is mapped for fuel, ignition and knock. Each of these variables is dimensionally mapped, the dimensions being RPM, load, cam angle. The Civic Si flash is the culmination of over 600 dyno pulls on K series engines. No one other than Honda has invested the R&D we have. As we gather more data on more Civics, it will be posted for all to learn from.

For example we will be having a dyno day soon just for that purpose - to get in Civic owners with various modifications to test with our program.

We realise that some people will want a tuneable system. Especially those that use forced induction. In the future (about a years's time) you will be able to upgrade the Hondata Flash program you have to a user tuneable system. In the mean time, you might be able to enjoy a smooth running Honda with more torque and power and revs, that will pass smog and your dealer can use a scan tool with to check for problems.

[02SilverSiHB]

Originally posted by Az02Si
Um....BUY IT NOW!!!!!! I just threw my ecu back in my car,and went for a drive....WOW!!!!! The extra revs were REALLY needed with thius motor.3-4 upshift occurs at about 87-89 mph,and the car REALLY feels alive up top now too.It feels like a stretched,smooth powerband with a few extra ponies thrown in the mix....Im VERY happy,and will provide dynocharts ASAP.IMHO,ANYONE who can afford it should just get it..It WILL be a must have for these cars.It reminds me of my old b16 now,watching the tach go to 7800ish:'( Ill post more impressions shortly,i gotta DRIVE!!!!! Thanks to the crew at Hondata for a GREAT product that everyone will love!
good to here! I really want it, but it just seems such a high price. Do you remember when people were first getting hondata systems for their JRSC'd rides (on clubsi)? (I'm EXavier on there) Wasn't stage 1 without boost like 300 and then for boost you added 200, so a total of 500. It seems sooooo high of a price for our cars....maybe it's so high because it's more detailed of a job trying to "break the code" on our ecu. Am I wrong on their previous prices?
By they way, let us know when you go to the track again, I'd like to hear what you get.
Later

[SmoothOperator]

How can we know our engine internals can take those high revs??? I'm really interested in the ecu flash, but I'm way too paranoid about frying my engine.

[02SilverSiHB]

Originally posted by SmoothOperator
How can we know our engine internals can take those high revs??? I'm really interested in the ecu flash, but I'm way too paranoid about frying my engine.
just wait about 6 months after these few have had it, and then we'll see how it goes. That's what I'm doing. I don't feel like I'm in that big of a hurry

[IceD out N CALI]

yeah i'm gonna wait, let the ones that have it be the test subjects, but i got to ride in ep3guys flashed car, and all i gotta say is dayum:o

[Mr.02BlackSIguY]

so a hondata ECU wont have any gains on a ep with intake header exhaust?

[chunky]

Originally posted by Hondata
I am not aware of any programable system that can control the VTC (variable cam timing) at this point in time. No EMS I am aware of yet can pass the newer smog tests where the smog testing station plugs into the OBD II scan tool port to check the computer's emissions status.

To get an EMS to the same level of refinement; starting quality, idle quality, fuel quality compensation at all altitudes and temperatures would require the same level of investment that Honda have made - millions. Not to mention the engine's ULEV emissions standards. To get to the same level of power from a base EMS is going to cost many hundreds of dollars in dyno time.

The K series engine computer is mapped for fuel, ignition and knock. Each of these variables is dimensionally mapped, the dimensions being RPM, load, cam angle. The Civic Si flash is the culmination of over 600 dyno pulls on K series engines. No one other than Honda has invested the R&D we have. As we gather more data on more Civics, it will be posted for all to learn from.

For example we will be having a dyno day soon just for that purpose - to get in Civic owners with various modifications to test with our program.

We realise that some people will want a tuneable system. Especially those that use forced induction. In the future (about a years's time) you will be able to upgrade the Hondata Flash program you have to a user tuneable system. In the mean time, you might be able to enjoy a smooth running Honda with more torque and power and revs, that will pass smog and your dealer can use a scan tool with to check for problems.

I understand your points, and also the tremendous investment you have made in tweaking the stock ECU. However, as you yourself stated, despite all the dyno pulls made thus far, you need even more dyno pulls to fully refine the system. So why not wait till it's refined further? Or are you planning on offering people free or low cost upgrades to the latest revision?

How is Hondata planning on ensuring the value of the $595 invested for the upgrade? Does the buyer assume the risk that there will be future upgrades availible?

[Az02Si]

Wait to see if i drop a valve and THEN make your decisions....Just because the rev limit is so high DOES NOT mean you HAVE to shift there.I HAVE been,and in 2 days,i bet this things seen the new redline 100 times.No issues so far.YES im nervous sometimes taking the car so high(as you know,with a b16,you DONT take it far past stock fuel cut or that thing WILL float valves and make a mess)Maybe we have the same valvesprings as the type S?????? I dont know,watch what happens to mine and make judgements for yourselves.I have a feeling my car will be fine.

[Az02Si]

Rick just hit the nail on the head....At 7700,it feels GREAT,and dosent pull a puke and die like a STOCK car does with a STOCK ecu.....It pulls cleanly to the new redline,and dosent seem "choked" like the car used to.Revs VERY freely now.....

[02SilverSiHB]

Originally posted by Az02Si
It pulls cleanly to the new redline,and dosent seem "choked" like the car used to.Revs VERY freely now.....
that's good to here. With my stock ecu it does feel like it's joking at about 6rpm and higher. hhhmmmm maybe I should start saving up? :p

[Az02Si]

Dude save up.Its sooo worth it IMHO.I HATED the motor in this thing with the 6800 redline.Now im MORE than happy.First gear is actually usefull now.

[02SilverSiHB]

Originally posted by Az02Si
Dude save up.Its sooo worth it IMHO.I HATED the motor in this thing with the 6800 redline.Now im MORE than happy.First gear is actually usefull now.
so true about 1st. It just ripps through it and you know it would keep going if the rev limiter wasn't there. No doubt about it. I'll be getting one either by the time I get back from the desert or by the end of the year. I was dissappointed at first, but I see the light! :D Hondata is the only way to go!
I remember seeing how they could make a turbo civic with over 300whp get 30mpg! That's awsome engineering. Wish I could work for a company like that.

[myeverlovinsir]

Originally posted by fishboy
hell yeah. must... save... money...

the only thing i'm scared of is what happens if our ecu gets lost in the mail? we're screwed.:(

Just to let you know, when I sent mine out, it was insured for $1000 Can but am not sure what the real value of the ECU, imobilizer and key are worth. Anyone know this?

[myeverlovinsir]

Originally posted by 02SilverSiHB

I remember seeing how they could make a turbo civic with over 300whp get 30mpg! That's awsome engineering. Wish I could work for a company like that.


Your not kidding, my engineering background has boded well, and even though it's a hobby for me, I would seriously like to be more involved in development and design aspects of Honda and Hondata.;)

[DownTheHatch]

If all goes well with your new redlines I'm definately interested in upgrading my ecu. Some extra revs could come in handy.

A Type-R tach overlay would complement the ecu upgrade nicely.

[DownTheHatch]

Pretty redline, pretty redline.

[civic hatch boi]

phnxb16... u think u can beat ur friend's old Si if you shifted at 6.8k? wouldn't the extra 10-12hp and 4-9tq be enough to beat the older si's? even w/o the higher redline.

[Az02Si]

NO....shifting at 6800=me getting WORKED...remember,were talking about a low 15 sec b16.....But at 7700,well,that leaves me ahead of him...look for vids later today ;)

[Mr.02BlackSIguY]

so will hondata work well with i/h/e ? say i/h/e add around 10-15 horsies and hondata add 10-15 horsies as well.. so together it will add 20- 30 HP? yes ? no?

[CleanBlackSi02]

No. Check the dynos on their website.

[rick77f]

I have only run with an intake with the Hondata. My car makes more power than the other test mule for some reason. On my Hondata eqipped car with stock intake, I made an additional 6hp at the ground with a Borla exhaust. This was not done on the regular Hondata dyno at Church Automotive. When the exhaust is complete the car goes back to Hondata for some more testing. Also the Hondata tune is a preliminary version only running the old 7500 limiter. I would reserve final judgment until a few more cars start doing Hondata with other mods.

[Mr.02BlackSIguY]

so how much horse and tourque will the hondata with i h e add? or theres no answer because theres more testing involve

[rick77f]

more testing needed. Maybe next week I can get am I/H/E dyno done.

[Mr.02BlackSIguY]

u think i can test drive you car rick? im a friend of HA mrfixit and he tells me your his neighbor. i wanna feel what its like driving the ep with hondata.