Gaining Caster

[eloc49]

Hi, I want to gain some more caster in the front to help with the straight line stability of my ep. 2 questions, will roll center adjusters help with stability? and do DC5 caster plates (like Todds caster plates) fit the EP? I have adjustable camber so I would keep them at max caster and just adjust camber on my coils.

[USAF EP3]

These will help you gain front caster:

http://www.kseriesparts.com/cr/PJM-PWSTA-DC5-SPH.html

Also, I personally have the Todd's Caster plates installed on my EP. They are direct fit. RSX and EP3 share about 99.1% same suspension with some super minor differences.

[eloc49]

Thanks! Would you say the bearings or the plates help more?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[captaingamez]

They help but they also squeak like hell and are a pain in the damn ass to install.

These are a better option which I am planning.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Superpro+SPF2308K&client=firefox-a&hs=Oex&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Y7vlUvy7CqS6yQH7qICoCw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAg&biw=1440&bih=771

Also to my knowledge the DC5R LCAs also increase caster slightly. And yes, so do the roll center adjusters slightly, but none are a better option than the bushings.

[Hasbro]

Thanks! Would you say the bearings or the plates help more?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You get much more caster from the plates but I can guarantee you your oem bushings are crap by now and are causing alignment distortion. Do both! And subframe washers and R lcas!

CaptainGamez, huh, I've never considered poly offset bushings. Have you had any experience with them? Longevity?

[USAF EP3]

They help but they also squeak like hell and are a pain in the damn ass to install.

These are a better option which I am planning.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Superpro+SPF2308K&client=firefox-a&hs=Oex&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Y7vlUvy7CqS6yQH7qICoCw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAg&biw=1440&bih=771

Also to my knowledge the DC5R LCAs also increase caster slightly. And yes, so do the roll center adjusters slightly, but none are a better option than the bushings.

If you contact PCI (Pro Car Innovations), they will remove your old bushings and install the new ones for only $50.00 plus shipping both ways.

[captaingamez]

I have poly normal ES bushings in my EP3 for over 100k now and they are still solid as hell. I checked them when I did my 5 lug and I could not for the life of me move the LCA in any other directions. so I would say longevity is good, they are coming up on surpassing the life of the OEM ones I pulled out.

The Super Pro kit has really good reviews, and its backed by lifetime warranty, people ocer on the DC5 ITR forum seem to like it. But I have only run ES in the past, I wish that ES made a caster increase kit, but ES does sell and back the Super Pro kit on their website so......

I forgot abut the subframe spacers!! That works too.

And for the record, the PCI is an awesome kit, but it is just rather noisy being hard spherical and all, I actually do have experience with it in my friends FG track car, and its a great kit, but I wouldnt run it on a street car.

[Hasbro]

Good to know, think I'll go the poly route for the sake of my brother. I'm more concerned with the rear bushings, anyway.

[captaingamez]

The non caster Energy suspension ones are insanely easy to install once you get the old ones out, they pop right in when they are greased enough. The Super Pro ones would be a bit more of a pain I imagine, since they have a steel race around the compliance bushing.

USAF EP3, Do you have any issue with your Todd's plates moving after being put in position? I was reading SHG EasyE's build thread and he resurfaced his so they wouldn't do it, I am looking to get a set of these in the future so I'm curious. I wish they would start making them again.

[eloc49]

I'm thinking I'm gonna try the kaport caster/camber plates. Am I right that I can just take the pillow ball upper mount off my Megan coils and put the kaport one on. How hard is the install?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Powers]

I have the pci spherical in my r lca's. The ride has hardly changed and there is no noise. I've got 4k miles on em now. Id highly recommend them.

[captaingamez]

Powers, drive them in the rain and put 10k on them, they will get noisy. Jamie's sounds like a pack of angry rats going down the road, the bearings get dry over time and what PCI needs to do is install a grease fitting so that the sphericals can be injected with grease to make them quiet and not wear.

As I said they are a great kit, but they also transmit more vibration to the chassis. For me I would only do them on a race/track car.


one of my big plans for my car this year is to get the DC5 aluminium LCAs and put the Super Pro bushings in them. Should make for a good handling improvement. I am gonna space my subframe a wee bit too.

wouldnt spacing the subframe stretch the upper motor mounts slightly though?

[USAF EP3]

The non caster Energy suspension ones are insanely easy to install once you get the old ones out, they pop right in when they are greased enough. The Super Pro ones would be a bit more of a pain I imagine, since they have a steel race around the compliance bushing.

USAF EP3, Do you have any issue with your Todd's plates moving after being put in position? I was reading SHG EasyE's build thread and he resurfaced his so they wouldn't do it, I am looking to get a set of these in the future so I'm curious. I wish they would start making them again.

That was a problem with the V1's because they were adjustable Castor AND Camber.

I own the V2's which he designed with the castor at full tilt positive and not adjustable but retains full camber adjustment.

The underlying problem was before he only had 2 M6 bolts holding the camber adjustments and the newer plates have 3 M6 bolts. I was lucky enough to catch the last wave of his castor plates it's been almost a year now since I put in my down payment.

[captaingamez]

Oh I see.

He is still making them right? I think I am going to eventually get a set

[eloc49]

I read somewhere the super pro bushings take you from 1.5 to around 4 degrees of caster. Can anyone confirm? That seems too good to be true


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[captaingamez]

I read .5-1.5 degrees, now I am curious....

http://www.itr-dc5.com/forum/index.php?/topic/24704-how-to-install-super-pro-front-caster-lower-polyurethane-bushes/

[eloc49]

My bad, 3.8 without subframe adjustment. Still, that would make them a way better option than plates
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=575263&page=2

[eloc49]

Switched my camber plates and it makes a noticeable difference to the stability and steering of the car


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[USAF EP3]

In case you were wondering, I only have Todd's plates and DC5-R aluminum control arms and my caster specs are:

Driver side: 5.33*
Passenger: 6.00*

I bought the subframe washers from BLOX but have yet to install them. I'm waiting to decide on which bushings I want for the LCA's. I never heard of the SuperPro's until this thread popped up. I daily my car but I also auto-x and plan on starting to go to Sebring this year.

I think I might be able to live with the spherical bearings.

[eloc49]

Let me know how the blox bearings are. I think I might try the superpro ones just because of the noise problems with sphericals, and my car is just a DD for now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[USAF EP3]

I'm not buying the BLOX bearings, they only sell the front compliance bushing. Also the BLOX bushings are not offset to gain more caster.

I plan on buying the PCI bearings as they sell both front and rear compliance bushings for the LCA and I'm having them install the bushings for me.

[Powers]

I'm not buying the BLOX bearings, they only sell the front compliance bushing. Also the BLOX bushings are not offset to gain more caster.

I plan on buying the PCI bearings as they sell both front and rear compliance bushings for the LCA and I'm having them install the bushings for me.

I did exactly what your planning to do with my itr lcas. And I love it. Very good investment if you ask me. Are the bloc subframe washers supposed to add castor a swell?

[USAF EP3]

I did exactly what your planning to do with my itr lcas. And I love it. Very good investment if you ask me. Are the bloc subframe washers supposed to add castor a swell?

Thanks for the insight on the PCI bearings.

The subframe bolt collars as they're referred to, only soak up the play in the 4 subframe bolts so the subframe does not shift when installing or during hard driving. Some guys over at clubrsx.com have gain a little bit of caster by kicking the subframe forward and holding it in place as they tighten the bolts down, but I wouldn't feel too sure about doing it that way.

[eloc49]

I got the superpro bushings installed as well as the roll center adjusters, and 0857 steering bracket, this is my steering angle at a full drop on my Megan coils http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/09/asatujyv.jpg

The car seems more stable, but overall it's jerky not sure if it's from my new wheels 17x8 +25 or the shop ignoring my rear camber settings all together -_-. Acceleration and high speed stability is Improved a lot, steering response is good too. I had front my top mounts on their opposite sides to get more caster, but the highest camber we could get was -.5 deg, so I put them back on their correct sides

More pics: http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/09/5uzugybe.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/09/u3a6e8at.jpg

[USAF EP3]

I don't believe jerky is the term you're looking for.

Twitchy is more what I think you're feeling.

Remember, everything OEM was rubber and designed to keep American Billy Joe Bob safe from his own lack of driving skills. Once you start tweaking the car's suspension to handle properly like an enthusiast should, the car responds much better to steering inputs as it is now and feels 'twitchy' or the 'jerkiness' you're describing.

[eloc49]

Turns out it was just horribly aligned. Got my caster up to 2.3 on the passengers

[Eddie Murphy]

I will be doing the SuperPro lca bushes soon along with Hotchkis plates reversed for caster. Is there any hints or helpful advise anyone can give me before I do this? Thanks.
-I've looked and can't find a good DIY for these...

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m577/AreaMotorsport/Area-Motorsport-Ep3-Suspension-SuperPro-Caster-Increase.jpg

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg96/mustclime/IMG_0007.jpg

[Hasbro]

Pretty straight forward.

Not sure what lcas you have but the Rs really change everything. If you're doing all of this work it's a shame to not do the best mod of them all while you're in there. And another nice thing about installing the R lca is that you can do the bushings on the R lca before pulling everything off for a shorter down time. They also pull 6 lbs. off the front sprung weight, increase track width, negative camber, and caster. Wider track width on our fwd suspension is a very big game changer and often overlooked along with caster.

[WhiteComet]

IMO, the caster gain from DC5R lcas are a myth.

I got DC5R AND PCI-E offset sphericals and I only dialed in at 1.6 total caster both sides. The PCI-E only added like .5 degrees.

A friend of mine who has the same setup on ep3 had the same thing so it's not just my car.

[Eddie Murphy]

No dc5r lca's for me because people still go back and forth on the end results, I'm not sold it's worth all the work for the potential gains. The main reason for me is I'm k24 swapped and RH and no front sway. I'm going to try and fit the 16mm em2 front sway, and I would never be able to clear a dc5r front sway. But I believe the plates and offset lca bush should yield a nice result. If I didn't have #k24problems I would have went with the dc5r lca's

[Her-Name's-Ally]

The dc5r LCAs are lighter as well. when you put them next to each other its hard to believe they don't give more.

[Her-Name's-Ally]

The dc5r LCAs are lighter as well. when you put them next to each other its hard to believe they don't give more.

[Eddie Murphy]

OK the DC5R LCA's most likely would have gave me better alignment specs. Running out of tie rod end was an issue, I would need shorter tie rods(Todd's) or the wider track of the dc5r lca's would have gave me the longer distance to tie rod, and made up the difference with the too long stock tie rods. Here is my caster results:
3.5 caster
fr camber -0.6
fr tow out 1/32
r camber -0.2
r toe 0
That caster increase feels great tho... very responsive steering and fast re-centering of steering wheel... the wheel like whips back. Straight line tracking and stability at speed has improved also, no more torque steer...
I would have liked to get closer to 5*
And I have seen that there is an aftermarket fr sway bar for the dc5r that fits under the header but only fits dc5r lca's.
DC5R Swift Fr Sway bar TS103-001 (http://www.swiftsprings.net/products/sport-compact/stabilizer.html)
http://www.swiftsprings.net/products/sport-compact/img/stabilizer.jpg
...and that sway with dc5r lca's would fix my k24 RH front sway fitment issue. Now I gotta find dc5r lca's
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/11182046_10205048885514822_8531325347644984477_n.j pg?oh=8e01d6bf191cc83e4f67d1d76a7daa75&oe=55CFB295&__gda__=1439409185_9e9a95f851430ea19161b1ebc6a9fba 1

[WhiteComet]

i have a DC5R front sway fs if you are interested. Upgraded for a cusco so I no longer need mine.

[eloc49]

Sooo I might put in a toggle switch to my EPS. Over 70mph the car isnt "shaky", or "twitchy" but turning the wheel the tinyiest amount causes a huge turn, sometimes it just looks like I'm drunk and swerving. -2.6 deg camber. Anyone done this?

[dirtyMETHOD]

I'm running the Todd's V2 plates, DC5R LCAs and they all work well together. Almost 6* caster and the car feels amazing. Need to put on my new wheels for a fine tuned alignment and I'll post the spec sheet/pics.