High grip w/out tramlining?

[02TafWhtSi]

Anyone know of a tire (either summer or all-season) I can buy that offers high levels of grip but without the annyoing tramlining problem that comes with hi-performance rubber? For those unfamiliar with the concept of tramlining:
"Tramlining" (http://www.motoringtv.com/midas/current_article/tramlining.html)

I'm running Bridgestone Potenza S0-3's (205/55/zr15) right now and am just about fed up with the constant steering wheel pull. It gets really frustrating, especially on bad roads with ruts, potholes, and uneven surfaces. I love the grip of the SO-3s and otherwise its a great tire but I guess I need something a little less agressive. Any suggestions?

[Suk02Si]

The link mentions tramlining will affect any oversized tire. So I guess you should try to find a 195/60 tire with better traction and sell your 205's.

[mental]

i read the article and it sounds like bullshit to me! i have never had this problem and it sounds to me like you read that and now all of a sudden you think you have a problem so you wanna rush out and spend money to fix... NOTHING! just my 2cents...

[Mongoose]

Originally posted by mental
i read the article and it sounds like bullshit to me! i have never had this problem and it sounds to me like you read that and now all of a sudden you think you have a problem so you wanna rush out and spend money to fix... NOTHING! just my 2cents...


In the great Northeast the roads freeze to below Zero in the winter, And swell to over 100 In the summer, It just kills the roads. makes pothole frost heaves Ect.
Plows rip the ashalt to shreds.

Maybe thats why you have never had this Problem,...in Texas

And I am Green with envy because I am freezing my ass off.

My 2 Cents

[gpt]

My car definitely experiences tramlining on my Kumho 712's. The roads in Vancouver and pretty bad and I am constantly correcting my car just to keep it going straight. For me it's worth it though to get the extra grip when the roads are good.

[pocketrocket]

Personally, I don't think that switching from a 205 to a 195 is going to do crap. If "the wider the tire, the more it follows road faults" was true, a Buick would ride like shit.. And a Viper couldn't even stay on the road. But hey, if you think that taking a half inch off your tire width will help, more power to ya.
I live in Ohio, right on the Michigan line, and we have some of the shittiest roads in the country.. Though my truck with 31/10.50's has no problem following any line I point it to.

[02TafWhtSi]

Originally posted by mental
i read the article and it sounds like bullshit to me! i have never had this problem and it sounds to me like you read that and now all of a sudden you think you have a problem so you wanna rush out and spend money to fix... NOTHING! just my 2cents...

OK, lets get one thing straight here. Have you ever driven in the northeast or more specifically in New Jersey? Our roads suck here and until you have experienced them you probably wouldn't know what I'm talking about. When I had the stock Michelins still on I hardly ever experienced this problem. I honestly didn't even know it was considered an issue until one day I decided to upgrade the rubber with the Potenzas. After that, while driving on the same roads, my car would dart left and right and the steering wheel would pull right out of my hands. Never happened before the upgrade and doesn't happen in my mother's CRV - so my conclusion is that it IS the new rubber! I am just trying to find out if there's a grippy tire out there that is not prone to this problem.

[pocketrocket]

Are you going back to stock springs? Because your Eibachs may be the culprit.

[02TafWhtSi]

Originally posted by pocketrocket
Are you going back to stock springs? Because your Eibachs may be the culprit.

Actually, I had the Eibachs on for about 3 weeks before I changed the tires and it never did this. I'll probably wait till it gets warmer in the next couple months to see if the cold temps are making my tires act funny. Otherwise, they're getting replaced - I shouldn't have to struggle like this.

[gpt]

Originally posted by 02TafWhtSi


When I had the stock Michelins still on I hardly ever experienced this problem. I honestly didn't even know it was considered an issue until one day I decided to upgrade the rubber with the Potenzas. After that, while driving on the same roads, my car would dart left and right and the steering wheel would pull right out of my hands.

I experienced the same as you when switching to my Kumho's. I also do not think it has to do with the width of the tire but rather with the tread pattern. You can see in your tread pattern below that it has a very concentric pattern, that middle 'ridge' in the pattern is designed to make the car more directionally stable. On a good road, your car will be really good not wondering at all, and more stable at higher speeds, on bad roads you will be all over the place.

If you think about it, for a car to go straight on a bad road if actually has to give up grip, if it follows the natural contour of the road it will wonder around, with the steering wheel boucing back and forth. So what you are actually experiencing is a side effect the increased grip that your upgraded tires will provide.

http://www.bridgestone-firestone.ca/eng/images/motorsports/potenza_tires.jpg

[Cone Killer]

I have this problem with my Azenis on bad roads. I've always called it "tracking". It has to do with tread width, design, and compound. The stickier and wider the tire, the bigger the chance that the tire will follow the road bumps, dips, and grooves.

This is one of the reasons I don't recommend Azenis for the street.

[02TafWhtSi]

Wow gpt! That is some great info! I knew it had to be the new tires since I didn't have this problem with the stockers on the same roads. And you're absolutely right about smooth - straight roads - they just dig in and feel totally stable. And the grip on twisty roads and when I'm cornering pretty hard is just amazing - not one peep from these babies - just ultimate stickiness. It just sucks that the roads around me are in such bad shape. Last question - are there any half way decent tires out there that don't have such an aggressive tread design but still are fun to use?

[chunky]

Originally posted by 02TafWhtSi
Wow gpt! That is some great info! I knew it had to be the new tires since I didn't have this problem with the stockers on the same roads. And you're absolutely right about smooth - straight roads - they just dig in and feel totally stable. And the grip on twisty roads and when I'm cornering pretty hard is just amazing - not one peep from these babies - just ultimate stickiness. It just sucks that the roads around me are in such bad shape. Last question - are there any half way decent tires out there that don't have such an aggressive tread design but still are fun to use?

it's the price you pay for grip. sticky tires do exactly that, stick to the road. If you go to a less sticky tire, you'll have less of a problem. But what's the fun in that?

You'll get used to it in no time.

[02TafWhtSi]

Originally posted by chunky
it's the price you pay for grip. sticky tires do exactly that, stick to the road. If you go to a less sticky tire, you'll have less of a problem. But what's the fun in that?

You'll get used to it in no time.

Well I've had em' on since August and they are still pissing me off! :D
As an ultimate perfromance tire they are amazing - I will not dispute that - but as an everyday, commuter tire on God forsaken roads they just don't work. I'm sorry, but my profession is not a road course tester (sadly) where I spend my days on glassy smooth switchbacks and swoopy hills - I go to Rutgers in a rather large city where evidently they don't know how to repar potholes and cracks:( or their DOT is on permanent lunch break. So, I made a mistake...not because this is a bad tire - its a great max-performance upgrade - but because I didn't think realistically about where I would be using them the most. Oh well, live and learn;)

[chunky]

Originally posted by 02TafWhtSi


Well I've had em' on since August and they are still pissing me off! :D
As an ultimate perfromance tire they are amazing - I will not dispute that - but as an everyday, commuter tire on God forsaken roads they just don't work. I'm sorry, but my profession is not a road course tester (sadly) where I spend my days on glassy smooth switchbacks and swoopy hills - I go to Rutgers in a rather large city where evidently they don't know how to repar potholes and cracks:( or their DOT is on permanent lunch break. So, I made a mistake...not because this is a bad tire - its a great max-performance upgrade - but because I didn't think realistically about where I would be using them the most. Oh well, live and learn;)

what tire PSI are you running?

if the PSI is too low, it makes the problem worse. You should be running about 40/35 or something similar for daily driving.

There are some crappy roads in atl too, but i'm sure nothing like what's the norm in the northeast. We've got some killer highways too - my commute is 90% freeway :D

[02TafWhtSi]

Originally posted by chunky


what tire PSI are you running?

if the PSI is too low, it makes the problem worse. You should be running about 40/35 or something similar for daily driving.

There are some crappy roads in atl too, but i'm sure nothing like what's the norm in the northeast. We've got some killer highways too - my commute is 90% freeway :D

Lucky you:) The highest psi I've had them at was 38. At that level I'll admit there was a slight decrease in tramlining but it was definitely still evident and I wasn't comfortable with the much rougher ride. On a side note - I just got finished ordering a new set of Yokohama Avid V4's (205/55/VR15) from the Tire rack - all for $300 shipped. I'll let everyone know if the problem disappears with these puppies. They are listed as "High Performance All-Season" and have many positive reviews from past users. Fingers are crossed!;)