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2K2SSM
07-29-2002, 02:07 PM
I've just gone over 3000 miles in my Si and need to take it in for an oil change. The dealership and the book say that you can go up to something like 5000 miles (?) in between changes, but I'd like to do it now anyway. I'm thinking about going synthetic and I know I can never go back after that. Just wanted to get some opinions from anyone who has gone synthetic.

What are the pros/cons. I know that one con is more $$ but this is my car and that doesn't matter :) I just want to treat her right.

Thanks. :p

SBC31
07-29-2002, 02:21 PM
I know you are new to this site, but this has been covered before, do a search and you should find lot's of info on this topic.

Oh and welcome to ephatch, enjoy your stay.

2K2SSM
07-29-2002, 02:25 PM
Tried a search and it won't search a 3 letter word "oil" even tried "synthetic oil". And this web site kicks me off every 5 minutes and I have to sign in again. This is only my 3rd post and I'm going to use the excuse that I'm a girl so please link up the original post and gimme a break. :)

EDIT

Here is what it tells me.

vBulletin Message
The search term you specified (oil) is under the minimum word length (4) and therefore will not be found. Please make this term longer.
If this term contains a wildcard, please make this term more specific.

SmoothOperator
07-29-2002, 02:26 PM
oooooooo a girl!!!! lol

Ant
07-29-2002, 02:43 PM
Im not going to go into a long discusion, Synthetic oil is vastly superior. Imo I would use synthetic oil and change it every 3500 miles.

SmoothOperator
07-29-2002, 02:46 PM
yeah but if your dealership finds out you're using synthetic, you can throw your warranty out the window.

Ant
07-29-2002, 03:10 PM
whys that???:confused:

eLEMENTgiRL
07-29-2002, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by 2K2SSM
This is only my 3rd post and I'm going to use the excuse that I'm a girl so please link up the original post and gimme a break. :)


hey! you're giving girls a bad name..geeze.. not all of us girls can't find a freakin post

DynaSpeed
07-29-2002, 04:36 PM
Give you a break cuz you're a girl? http://www.probetalk.com/forums/images/smilies/icon_wtf.gif

I know *a lot* of girls that would be a little upset at that statement! http://www.probetalk.com/forums/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif

And SmoothOperator, what are you talking about... synthetic voids warranties??? hmmm.. I don't think so.

SBC31
07-29-2002, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by 2K2SSM
Tried a search and it won't search a 3 letter word "oil" even tried "synthetic oil". And this web site kicks me off every 5 minutes and I have to sign in again.

Info on problems staying logged on:
http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=896

Here's what the search came up when looking for synthetic:
http://www.ephatch.com/forum/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=1634&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

Hope this helps.

02SilverSiHB
07-29-2002, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by 2K2SSM
Tried a search and it won't search a 3 letter word .....
Here is what it tells me.

vBulletin Message
The search term you specified (oil) is under the minimum word length (4) and therefore will not be found. Please make this term longer.
If this term contains a wildcard, please make this term more specific.



I get the same crap sometimes. Help a chick out guys and gals! :D Anyway, I don't know where that one guy got that adding synthetic will kill your warranty. What ever. Anyway, I'd go synthetic and of course stay synthetic as you know. Are you going to ask the dealer to do it? you might have to bring your own, and then hope they do use it. Or are you going to do it yourself?
Welcome by the way, it's me EXavier from clubsi

02SilverSiHB
07-29-2002, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by 2K2SSM
Tried a search and it won't search a 3 letter ...
Oh I forgot to say, that if you try a 3 letter word again, just put a * after the last letter, that way it will fool the search engine into thinking your looking for a 4 letter word, and will give you what you're looking for. Also try the engine forum

02SilverSiHB
07-29-2002, 04:53 PM
her ya go:
http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=257&highlight=oil%2A

SmoothOperator
07-29-2002, 05:01 PM
I don't know where that one guy got that adding synthetic will kill your warranty

Do you think I pull this crap outta thin air?? I spoke to the service guys at my dealership just last week. I asked them about switching to 5w30 oil. They told me "If you switch to any other oil, be it 5w30, synthetic, or whatever. Don't tell us about it. Your warranty will be VOID"
Thank you very much.

02SilverSiHB
07-29-2002, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by SmoothOperator


Do you think I pull this crap outta thin air?? I spoke to the service guys at my dealership just last week. I asked them about switching to 5w30 oil. They told me "If you switch to any other oil, be it 5w30, synthetic, or whatever. Don't tell us about it. Your warranty will be VOID"
Thank you very much.
WOW you told me! Damn. I stand corrected, because we all know how knowledgeable those guys are...cough cough...sarcasm...cough.... :rolleyes:

Mechanic
07-29-2002, 05:05 PM
We gotta cut this young lady some slack, guys.

First, you can change your oil and filter now if you want to. Your owner's manual indicates that it's not necessary until you've gone at least 5k miles, but I intend to change mine before that, and I think it's an excellent idea - think of it as very inexpensive insurance.

Second, any quality synthetic can be used. I recommend Mobile 1, but until later this year, you're going to have to use 5w-30 because Mobile hasn't started selling 5w-20 in this country yet. 5w-30 is fine; 5w-20 will be better this winter, depending on where you live. Also, let me add, that I disagree with an earlier post that said you couldn't change back to conventional (dinosaur) motor oil if you wanted. That's not correct; synthetics are fully compatible with conventional motor oil. You can even mix them if you want, though you quickly lose the best qualities of the synthetic (heat protection, "detergent" benefits) by doing that. (If you doubt that's correct, you're welcome to go to Mobile's website and read all about it.)

Finally, let me add that, years ago when I was driving home on weekends (a trip of 120 miles one way), I changed to Mobile 1 because I wanted the additional viscosity (heat) protection that synthetics provide. I soon discovered that the oil ran MUCH cooler (about 20 degrees cooler), and as an added benefit, I picked up a couple of miles per gallon (synthetics simply flow better because all the molecules are the same size). The stuff's great. Smart girl!

DynaSpeed
07-29-2002, 05:08 PM
I think you may just be taking one group of techs' insight as gospel, which may or may not be truthful. On the flip-side of your statement, I asked my dealership when I got my oil changed if they could offer me Royal Purple or Amsoil as a replacement, and they said, "Sure, as long as you bring it in, we'll put whatever you want in".

02SilverSiHB
07-29-2002, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by SmoothOperator


Do you think I pull this crap outta thin air?? I spoke to the service guys at my dealership just last week. I asked them about switching to 5w30 oil. They told me "If you switch to any other oil, be it 5w30, synthetic, or whatever. Don't tell us about it. Your warranty will be VOID"
Thank you very much.
By the way, I'm not trying to start an internet fight, because we all know that means


http://www.lamer.net/arguing.jpg

SmoothOperator
07-29-2002, 05:15 PM
Hey I'm not saying they're brilliant. But they know what will, and will not void the warranty. G'head ask the people at your own dealership. See what they say.

*note* I never said it was bad for your engine. Nor did I say to not use it.


it's me EXavier from clubsi
I'm not interested in getting in some silly argument here. Especially with someone from ClubSi. They're all very experienced when it comes flaming.

02SilverSiHB
07-29-2002, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by SmoothOperator
Hey I'm not saying they're brilliant. But they know what will, and will not void the warranty. G'head ask the people at your own dealership. See what they say.
look above my friend. I have already proven my point. Someone already said that they asked about putting some redline in there at the dealership. They didn't have a problem with it. Basically I'm just trying to get you to understand, those guys say a lot of crap sometimes to cover their own asses. It's cool if you believe them. Hey, you are going there for service. I'm not. It's all good man. Let's not get crazy. I was just trying to be a funny smart ass, not a mean smart ass. We all good now lad?

2K2SSM
07-30-2002, 06:57 AM
Originally posted by SBC31


Info on problems staying logged on:
http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=896

Here's what the search came up when looking for synthetic:
http://www.ephatch.com/forum/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=1634&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

Hope this helps.

Thanks for that information, which is what I asked for. I've never seen a search that didn't allow a 3 letter word such as "oil" to be searched. I was also unaware of the trick with the *.

BTW I really wasn't trying to be an attention whore with the whole "I'm a girl" thing but really, I don't like "repost" or the like being called on me without a link to the original post. ;)

This web site and it's members are still really new to me and I'd like to stick around for a while and get to know you guys/gals.

Thanks. :)

SmoothOperator
07-30-2002, 12:57 PM
I really wasn't trying to be an attention whore with the whole "I'm a girl" thing but really, I don't like "repost" or the like being called on me without a link to the original post.

Don't sweat it. For some reason tensions have been running high around here the past few days. Normally isn't like that. The board has been a big help to me, and hopefully it'll help you too. ;)

HondaMan
07-30-2002, 06:56 PM
This advice from HondaTech is all you need to know:

There is, indeed, a factory "Break In" fill in your car. Oddly enough, the dealership I work for (and every other dealership staff I've spoken to while on training) all recommend following the "Severe Service" schedule in the Manual. That means change your oil every 8,000 kilometers (~5000 miles).

So what does that mean for the Break In oil? Leave it in for 5000 miles, change it, and then get on a better schedule if you love your car.

My personal plans involve (after 5K miles), changing it every 2.5K miles with synthetic 5W30 (Castrol Syntec, all I ever feed my Hondas)) I don't really trust the 5w20 oil for my intended application:

"Bwwwaaaaaaaa *Bark!* Bwwwwaaaaaaa *Bark!* Bwwwaaaaa...."


Castrol Syntec rules in my book and it's what I plan to put in my ride when ready...still about 3000 miles away for my first oil change.

chunky
07-30-2002, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by HondaMan
This advice from HondaTech is all you need to know:

There is, indeed, a factory "Break In" fill in your car. Oddly enough, the dealership I work for (and every other dealership staff I've spoken to while on training) all recommend following the "Severe Service" schedule in the Manual. That means change your oil every 8,000 kilometers (~5000 miles).

So what does that mean for the Break In oil? Leave it in for 5000 miles, change it, and then get on a better schedule if you love your car.

My personal plans involve (after 5K miles), changing it every 2.5K miles with synthetic 5W30 (Castrol Syntec, all I ever feed my Hondas)) I don't really trust the 5w20 oil for my intended application:

"Bwwwaaaaaaaa *Bark!* Bwwwwaaaaaaa *Bark!* Bwwwaaaaa...."


Castrol Syntec rules in my book and it's what I plan to put in my ride when ready...still about 3000 miles away for my first oil change.

you do realize that castrol syntec is NOT a true synthetic base stock? They take a conventional oil base stock and then refine it until it nears the consistency of a synthetic.

The best on the shelf synthetics are the valvoline, pennzoil, and mobil 1. Although lately I've been hearing some negative things about mobil 1's new supersyn additive package. The ony mobil 1 with an adequate additive package for hard driving is their "performance driving" formula which only comes in 15w-50. That's what I currently use, but it's probably a bit thick and is costing me a few HP. I'm gonna switch to what is supposedly the best oil you can buy, the redline 10w-30 on my next change (6000 mile, i do a strict 3000 mile interval).

Also, the filter on the 2002 si sucks! Do NOT go 5000 miles if you drive hard with the stock filter, it does not have the capacity to filter hard driven oil for that many miles. Many people are using the filter from the b series motors. That is what I use, the mobil 1 1-104 filter.

Some people like to leave the synthetic oil in for two oil changes and only change the filter. The reasoning is that the synthetic oil retains it's ability to provide protection longer, but the filter becomes clogged, so they change the filter, and run the oil for two cycles. I personally don't reccomend doing this, but if you're really reallllly broke, you should at least change the filter on the appropriate cycle, and b/c it's synthetic oil, you can get away with not changing the oil w/o damaging your motor.

so, in a nutshell, change oil AND filter every 3000-3500 miles, using only synthetic.

Oh, using a different weight oil won't void the warranty. As long as it's of the proper API service grade (i think it's like sj or sg or something) It won't harm the motor. In the manual, it even specifies that you can use any oil as a temporary substitute as long as it is of the proper API service grade.

oh, and once you pick an oil brand, it's usually best not to change oils if it can be helped. The different additive packages result in what's called "oil shock" which is just a scary way of saying that some of the old oil's additives that are still in the motor will get burned off causing slightly higher oil consumption during the first 1 or two changes with the new oil. But everything eventually settles back down.

HondaMan
07-30-2002, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by chunky


you do realize that castrol syntec is NOT a true synthetic base stock? They take a conventional oil base stock and then refine it until it nears the consistency of a synthetic.

The best on the shelf synthetics are the valvoline, pennzoil, and mobil 1. Although lately I've been hearing some negative things about mobil 1's new supersyn additive package. The ony mobil 1 with an adequate additive package for hard driving is their "performance driving" formula which only comes in 15w-50. That's what I currently use, but it's probably a bit thick and is costing me a few HP. I'm gonna switch to what is supposedly the best oil you can buy, the redline 10w-30 on my next change (6000 mile, i do a strict 3000 mile interval).

Also, the filter on the 2002 si sucks! Do NOT go 5000 miles if you drive hard with the stock filter, it does not have the capacity to filter hard driven oil for that many miles. Many people are using the filter from the b series motors. That is what I use, the mobil 1 1-104 filter.

Some people like to leave the synthetic oil in for two oil changes and only change the filter. The reasoning is that the synthetic oil retains it's ability to provide protection longer, but the filter becomes clogged, so they change the filter, and run the oil for two cycles. I personally don't reccomend doing this, but if you're really reallllly broke, you should at least change the filter on the appropriate cycle, and b/c it's synthetic oil, you can get away with not changing the oil w/o damaging your motor.

so, in a nutshell, change oil AND filter every 3000-3500 miles, using only synthetic.

Oh, using a different weight oil won't void the warranty. As long as it's of the proper API service grade (i think it's like sj or sg or something) It won't harm the motor. In the manual, it even specifies that you can use any oil as a temporary substitute as long as it is of the proper API service grade.

oh, and once you pick an oil brand, it's usually best not to change oils if it can be helped. The different additive packages result in what's called "oil shock" which is just a scary way of saying that some of the old oil's additives that are still in the motor will get burned off causing slightly higher oil consumption during the first 1 or two changes with the new oil. But everything eventually settles back down.

I'll see if your Castrol Syntec comment is correct. Thanks for your input.

punkdork
07-30-2002, 10:24 PM
I read this like 20 page thread about oils... weights... synthetic vs dino... etc. What I came away with is this. I'm going to use that new Max Life (valvoline I think it is). It was called the best dino based because of its additives. I'm going to change it every 3k miles (maybe excess but too much is better than too little) and I'm going to use 5w-20w (the lower the difference between the weights the less likely it is to break down). All that being said Red Line synthetic was much loved but for price and convenience and piece of mind I decided to go max life with the 3k intervals.. should be cheap and easy.

SpacemanSpiff
07-31-2002, 06:48 AM
Punkdork,
I read that thread and then migrated over to http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/
The guy BrorJace (sp?) on Honda Tech who was pushing Maxlife was recommending it because he thought it contained Moly as an anti-wear additve. The folks at bobs have since found out that Maxlife does not contain any Moly...



http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000165#000001

02SilverSiHB
07-31-2002, 07:44 AM
Originally posted by SmoothOperator


I'm not interested in getting in some silly argument here. Especially with someone from ClubSi. They're all very experienced when it comes flaming.
ooohhh, cold. I'm not like them. I hate that crap on clubsi. I never even go there anymore, unless there is a topic in the Texas forum to read

SiCivic2k2
07-31-2002, 09:17 AM
moly moly moly moly moly....... I'm going to tear it off and chop it up and make some guacoMOLY.

(Austin Powers III)

TezGari
07-31-2002, 09:20 AM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Do not change your oil till your dealer tells you to. And you must change your oil first at the HONDA dealer you bought your car from!

Take care of your little EP....It talks to you if you talk to him/her.

So take care,

HondaMan
07-31-2002, 09:23 AM
Originally posted by HondaMan


I'll see if your Castrol Syntec comment is correct. Thanks for your input.

Here is Castrol's reply (Syntec is still my choice): :)

SYNTEC is a Fully Synthetic motor oil featuring unique molecular components, which contains an exclusive chemical ester. This chemical ester is polar in nature and is attracted to and actually bonds to engine parts providing a level of protection superior to conventional oil.

On the surface of metal components exists a thin oxide coating, which can develop a positive charge due to electron localization. SYNTEC's unique polar ester is designed to take advantage of this effect.

The attraction between the positive charge of the engine surface and the polar ester, which has a negative charge, creates a layer of ester component that is attracted and held to the surface of the metal. In effect, a layer of lubricant becomes affixed to the engine surface creating a long-lasting protective film that affords a level of protection superior to conventional oils.

Castrol SYNTEC has an excellent detergent/dispersant system, which provides superior performance in maintaining engine cleanliness and helping to prevent build-up of deposits within the engine. SYNTEC contains patented stabilizers that are special patented dispersant VI improver molecules that interact with harmful pollutants differently than conventional dispersants. The formulation of SYNTEC seeks out by-products and other corrosive particles, holds them in suspension and maintains engine cleanliness more effectively than conventional oils. SYNTEC neutralizes or stabilizes corrosive effects and provides deposit formation control protection, which can result in a cleaner running engine. By keeping your engine cleaner, this process can reduce wear and thus help extend engine life.

The benefits you derive from using fully synthetic oil comes from the superior protection a synthetic oil offers that protects like no mineral oil ever could. Synthetic oil offers superior wear protection, excellent deposit control performance and lower volatility.

Castrol SYNTEC Full Synthetic with its exclusive chemical esters is
also available in SAE 0W-30, 5W-30, l0W-30, 10W-40 and 5W-50.

Mechanic
08-01-2002, 04:52 AM
Ah, yes, motor oil discussions. Nothing fills the pages of an automobile website like motor oil discussions.

My two cents: Honda's recommendations WRT oil changes are a compromise. Factors include what the oil industry says it can provide WRT to oil service life, anti-wear properties, detergents, etc. As a matter of law related to manufacturers' warranty requirements, Honda (Ford, GM, BMW, etc.,) all have to defend their recommendations as necessary. In other words, they can't specify the use of a particular brand of oil or require that their cars be serviced at a Honda dealer unless they can prove that their "requirement" is just that, a requirement. Add to this the PR angle: If, for example, Ford states that their vehicles need only be serviced annually, you can bet the Chevy, Honda, Toyota, etc., are going to match that or be left behind in the showroom. Also, these days most new car purchasers still trade cars after approximately 32 months. Put all this together, and Honda (Ford, GM, BMW, etc.) realize that they can extended the recommended oil change intervals, greatly please the typical new-car buyer, and the odds are still greatly in their favor that their engines will not burn oil, wear out piston rings or cylinder liners, or suffer some other oil-related failure, so that's what they do -- extend the recommended oil-change intervals. If you do have an engine warranty claim and can prove that you've met the service recommendations (receipts for oil/filter changes, or proof that you bought products that met OEM specs and did the work yourself), they MUST honor your claim. On the other hand, if you have a rod sticking out the side of your block, the tach is stuck at 8300 rpm, or your engine damage reflects that sort of abuse, it doesn't matter if you changed your oil monthly; you're SOL.

As for the products used, as long as they meet the OEM specs, you're home free. If you change your oil and filters more often than recommended (3k vice 5-10k), use the best of synthetics, do not make a habit of living at the far end of the tach, you can easily double the "normal" engine service life. In the final analysis as to whether all the extra service is "necessary," it all comes down to how long you plan to own the car. If you do all this and then trade or sell your car in three years, the next owner will be the person who most enjoys your compulsive behavior. If you really intend to keep your car will into the 100k range, then 3k oil-change intervals, combined with synthetics, virtually guarantee the body will rot away before the engine gives out or requires mechanical service.

chunky
08-01-2002, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by HondaMan


Here is Castrol's reply (Syntec is still my choice): :)

SYNTEC is a Fully Synthetic motor oil featuring unique molecular components, which contains an exclusive chemical ester. This chemical ester is polar in nature and is attracted to and actually bonds to engine parts providing a level of protection superior to conventional oil.

On the surface of metal components exists a thin oxide coating, which can develop a positive charge due to electron localization. SYNTEC's unique polar ester is designed to take advantage of this effect.

The attraction between the positive charge of the engine surface and the polar ester, which has a negative charge, creates a layer of ester component that is attracted and held to the surface of the metal. In effect, a layer of lubricant becomes affixed to the engine surface creating a long-lasting protective film that affords a level of protection superior to conventional oils.

Castrol SYNTEC has an excellent detergent/dispersant system, which provides superior performance in maintaining engine cleanliness and helping to prevent build-up of deposits within the engine. SYNTEC contains patented stabilizers that are special patented dispersant VI improver molecules that interact with harmful pollutants differently than conventional dispersants. The formulation of SYNTEC seeks out by-products and other corrosive particles, holds them in suspension and maintains engine cleanliness more effectively than conventional oils. SYNTEC neutralizes or stabilizes corrosive effects and provides deposit formation control protection, which can result in a cleaner running engine. By keeping your engine cleaner, this process can reduce wear and thus help extend engine life.

The benefits you derive from using fully synthetic oil comes from the superior protection a synthetic oil offers that protects like no mineral oil ever could. Synthetic oil offers superior wear protection, excellent deposit control performance and lower volatility.

Castrol SYNTEC Full Synthetic with its exclusive chemical esters is
also available in SAE 0W-30, 5W-30, l0W-30, 10W-40 and 5W-50.

I'll have to find the news article where someone was filing a lawsuit against castrol over false advertising claims.

but don't you think it's funny how they say they have particles that BOND to the cylinder walls, yet somehow their oil helps prevents deposits?

as far as i'm concerned, if it's bonding to the cylinder walls, then it IS a deposit.