Depo install issue with high/low beams ('03)

Hey I'm just curious if anyone else has come across this issue and/or has any suggestions... I'm attempting to install the new depo's on my '03, and when I turn the high beams on, the low's don't stay on. I have no idea if this is normal because when I watch the SpecDTuning install video on youtube, both high and low beams stay on when high is engaged. Here's some pics:

http://i.imgur.com/uWaJXl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/OqBrnl.jpg

For the '03 I have to use the wiring harness that comes with the depos, and I've plugged everything in and it looks good. This happens on both sides of the car, and I'll also note that high/low worked fine with my old yellow OEMs :)

Thanks for any help,
bung

Because you have a 02-03. Remember that your OE headlights were one bulb for both hi/lo. I don't think there's a way around it.

That makes sense, like I said I have no idea what's *supposed* to happen... is this sort of thing ok from a safety/lighting perspective?

You can absolutely fix this. Are you running HID's or just halogen lows?

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Originally Posted by theMan_ny

Because you have a 02-03. Remember that your OE headlights were one bulb for both hi/lo. I don't think there's a way around it.

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You're right about the first part. However there are multiple ways around it depending on your setup.

Right now I just have what came with the Depos, according to Moonsi's thread: "(Low beam: H1, High beam: 9005)"

EDIT Unfortunately my "car/garage" afternoon is running short, so I'm going to finish getting the bumper back on so I have a car this week if I need it. But If you can let me know what stuff I might need I can acquire it over the week. Any 02'03 members just running like this anyway? Again I'm not really sure if it matters or not =/

If the people who sold you the lights also sold you a conversion kit used to make them work, you're either using that kit incorrectly (unlikely) or they improperly wired the conversion harness. Essentially this is what's going on:

1) The H4 socket on your harness is made to tell the single bulb either low or high instead of low and high at the same time.
2) You can use relays to solve this issue by sending a constant signal to the low beams and a high-beam switch gated signal to the high beams. These relay-based harnesses are most often used for HID application but there's no reason I can think of why they won't work for you. However it requires a good bit of DIY'ing and about 20-30 dollars in wires, relays, electrical tape, connectors, etc. I've made two of these harnesses before using the below layout and each of them functioned flawlessly.

The real issue here is that they sold you something that wouldn't require you do all this (and without seeing one and taking it apart I can't off the top of my head say how to do it WITHOUT relays). I'd try to get the vendor to make it right. Worst case scenario you can make one of these harnesses and then down the road you'll be ready for HID's should you decide to go that route.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...HID-9005-P.jpg

Sorry, I appreciate the detailed reply, but I don't believe I have HID's or any "Kit" involved. I may have mentioned a "wiring harness" but thats just a cable splitter for 1-plug (02/03) to 2-plug (04-05) that seperates high/low, which is visible in the 2nd image on the thread i linked to here http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthr...low-Fog-lights

Just don't use your high beams and try not to end up in a situation where you need them.

Here's what I would do: the problem with this harness is that it uses the "switched ground" that the stock H4 harness on the 02/03 has. Every time you turn on the high beams, the low beams are still getting power but they're losing their ground so they turn off. If you take the yellow wire that's attached to the low bulb and you ground it out with a constant ground (just tack it to the bare chassis metal on a nearby grounding point or frame bolt) that should solve the issue. The low beam will only get power when the headlights are on, but will have a ground even when you turn on the high beams.

I'm 85% positive this will solve the issue. Ground out the yellow wire and let me know what happens.

EDIT FOR CLARITY: The yellow wire on your included conversion harness, not the one in my picture.

Thanks again for the response. Fortunately my old man is an electrical/lighting engineer and he's going to come by on Tuesday. I've mentioned the grounding suggestions to him, and he's also going to figure out what voltage is going through, and he might consider installing some diodes somehow. Honestly I don't know too much about this stuff, so my eyes kinda glaze over reading your post, but I will post back and let you know our solution.

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Originally Posted by Draw7Seven

Ground out the yellow wire and let me know what happens.

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Will the hot-wire (the blue wire coming from #3 on the H4 plug in the diagram) be able to handle the current draw from both the low and high beam being on at the same time? It sounds to me like the 02-03 EP3's headlight harness is kind of low gauge. I would worry about burning something out. Might wanna go more than just grounding out the low beam to the chassis and throw some relays in there.

I had the same issue when I started.

I ordered a custom harness that came with only 1 relay. I ordered a second similar relay and rewired according to the diagram and it solved the problem. You NEED a separate low and high beam relay.

That diagram is golden for converting from 02/03 to 04/05 headlight setup, HIDs or halogen.

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Originally Posted by Draw7Seven

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...HID-9005-P.jpg

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Originally Posted by eccramer

Will the hot-wire (the blue wire coming from #3 on the H4 plug in the diagram) be able to handle the current draw from both the low and high beam being on at the same time? It sounds to me like the 02-03 EP3's headlight harness is kind of low gauge. I would worry about burning something out. Might wanna go more than just grounding out the low beam to the chassis and throw some relays in there.

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Honestly it probably won't be enough. You really shouldn't convert from one bulb to two without relays, HIDs or no. I highly recommend that the OP use his connects with dad to follow the layout of Ocelaris' harness. However Talon once posted an alternative involving connecting the high and low grounds using a diode, if I remember correctly, so he may be on to something there.

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Originally Posted by Karma

I had the same issue when I started.

I ordered a custom harness that came with only 1 relay. I ordered a second similar relay and rewired according to the diagram and it solved the problem. You NEED a separate low and high beam relay.

That diagram is golden for converting from 02/03 to 04/05 headlight setup, HIDs or halogen.

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Yeah I think the relays are the best route and again I'm kind of shocked that they sell this wire splitter as if it's a proper conversion harness.

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Originally Posted by bung

Thanks again for the response. Fortunately my old man is an electrical/lighting engineer and he's going to come by on Tuesday. I've mentioned the grounding suggestions to him, and he's also going to figure out what voltage is going through, and he might consider installing some diodes somehow. Honestly I don't know too much about this stuff, so my eyes kinda glaze over reading your post, but I will post back and let you know our solution.

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Believe me when I say your dad will know WAY more than I do. Following the posted diagram is really the only wiring experience I've ever had (I put TSX projectors into Depos), but I think that speaks to just how simple this is once you have the basic idea of it.

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Originally Posted by bung

Right now I just have what came with the Depos, according to Moonsi's thread: "(Low beam: H1, High beam: 9005)"

EDIT Unfortunately my "car/garage" afternoon is running short, so I'm going to finish getting the bumper back on so I have a car this week if I need it. But If you can let me know what stuff I might need I can acquire it over the week. Any 02'03 members just running like this anyway? Again I'm not really sure if it matters or not =/

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That's how I have it set up. My low beams turn off as soon as my hi beams go on. Although I should add that I switched out my combination switch with other one and it sort of has a glitch that if I pull/push only slightly (its stiff), both hi/lo stay on, but if I pull/push the switch all the way my low beams turn off.. I dont really mind. It's not like I drive with my hi beams on all the time, and they are pretty bright just by themselves.

Cool thanks for the input as well. torquetc also mentioned he's running the same thing, lows shut off, and that's what moonsi says is expected. I wasn't really looking for more output, just wasn't sure of the norm. I'll probly also check my province's regs, but I may let my lighting-guru father decide when he has a look :)

It's expected based on the way that it's wired, but it's NOT suggested. In the 04/05 the 9005 serves as the high beam in addition to the low beam, not instead of. I highly recommend you get it corrected before using your high beams regularly (not because it will cause any damage, but because it's a little unsafe and not the intended design of the OEM).

Great, thanks for that, I will definitely fix it then.

Hey guys, just a quick half-baked update, my electrical engineer father and I have spent the last two evenings looking at this.

A lot of it was spent pouring over wiring diagrams found in the Haynes manual and the service manual PDF I found. One of the things that seems to be troubling us, is that they did an after-thought install of a daytime running lights system that's required by law here in Canukistan. The Haynes book also shows the American circuits which after review my dad says would be easier to deal with.

For American's, it may be as simple as running a diode from the white to yellow wire in the harness that comes with the Depo's, I'll confirm this and post a diagram/picture. It did actually work for us perfectly, but then we ran into this daytime running light issues which as I said we will attempt to address next time.

PS: "the controls being on the negative sides of these circuits are ASININE arghhh" LoL poor guy.. and he wasn't happy about how they shortcut so much to save wiring/relay costs in car manufacturing, which creates more complex systems in the process.

Yeah I never understood why they used a common positive and a switched ground... sort of illogical from the perspective of somebody who doesn't know much about this stuff. I forgot you have the running light issue to deal with. I'm gonna try to find FreeLunch's posts on his DIY--again, it was for TSX HID's, but his was an Si-R in Canada and I seem to remember him mentioning what he did for the "DTR's".

Good news and bad news- the good news is I found his thread. The bad news is he never got it to work:

"Honestly the wiring was tricky as hell. I used the harness supplied by Wayne from SSR, but his harness is designed for US cars. It just didnt play nice with my daytime running lights. It caused the dashboard DRLs indicator to stay on and it sent power to the HIDs and made them turn on as my DRLs. So i was driving around with HIDs on all the time.

Normally, the car uses the hi-beam lights at a reduced wattage as dimmer day time running lights.

In the end, my dad, who is a trained electrician, modified the harness. He wired the hibeams to the car's original hi-beam circuit, and cut the hibeam circuit from the HID harness. He then wired the low beam part of the harness to the cars low beam circuit.

Now it behaves like stock. DRLs = hibeams. Turn on the lights to low beam, HIDs on, hibeam turns off. Unfortunately the low beam no longer stays on with my hi-beams, which was the original design of the car. So no flashing hi-beams for me at night, as it'd cycle my HIDs too quickly and damage them"

See the whole thread here: http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthr...trofit-TSX-HID

I have these same Depos sitting in the garage waiting to be installed in my '03. Curious about the diode method. Are there any pictures or info for this? Would rather not add a bunch of additional wiring and such in the bay. Already not super thrilled about the included wiring harness. Any additional info would be awesome. Thanks.

I am also very interested in the diode method. I'm not really good at understanding wiring, but I am under the assumption that a diode works as a one-way valve for the current or the ground in this case. Does anyone else have an idea of how this could be incorporated to keep the low beams on when the highs are switched on an 02/03?

Thanks for any additional information.

Patrick

I have been studying the wiring diagram for the US version of the car. As far as I can tell, it would be possible to wire a diode in the under hood relay box or right at the headlight assemblies. The diode would have to be jumpered between the red/blu and red/white wires on the left headlight, and the red/blue and red/white wires on the right headlight. I'm just confused which way the diode would have to be facing between the wires. But I believe this would work great without adding additional wiring to the engine bay!

This might help, Ocelaris ran the diode between the grounds.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...torHarness.jpg


Read this thread for more info.

That is exactly what I'm talking about. Thanks for the diagrams.

I tried wiring the diodes in, but found that they got very VERY hot, actually re-melted the solder that was used splice them in. I used 1N4001 diodes. Any suggestions? It did work though. The low beams stayed on while the high beams were triggered.

I was also entertaining the idea of grounding the yellow wire of the depo harness (low beam ground) to the chassis to see if that would keep the low beams on. I don't think it would "overdrive" the stock wiring as long as you are running standard 55w and 60w bulbs. If anybody has any additional information about this please share.

UPDATE: I tried doing this when I got home, worked like a charm. No smoke coming from the engine bay, or melting diodes. : ) One word of caution for those who do it this way. Each headlight is on a 15amp circuit. Essentially, you are combining the high and low beam on this circuit. 55w+60w=115w, 115w/12volts=9.58amps. Well within the means of the stock wiring. Some people do like to run 100w bulbs in the highs which puts it dangerously close to 15amps on the circuit. Nearly to 13amps. Factor in slight voltage fluctuations of a car's circuitry and that could mean a blowing a fuse.

I don't really know if it would be a good idea to wire it this way if you were planning on converting to HIDs. Normal HID kits are actually less wattage at 35w, but keep in mind that there is a spike in power draw when HIDs are first turned on, I'm not sure how well the stock wiring would deal with that spike. Down the road I do plan to go this route, so I will likely let you guys know what I come up with. Hopefully this information is helpful.

Did you guys had any problems with the diodes overheating?

Quick question, where can I buy these relays for the 03 si in states, or what type of diode did you use to make this work? Been searching with no luck. Also no need for DRL.

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Originally Posted by ChampionshipW

Quick question, where can I buy these relays for the 03 si in states, or what type of diode did you use to make this work? Been searching with no luck. Also no need for DRL.

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I found there isn't a need for a relay if you just ground the yellow wire on the Depo wiring harness. This will keep both the high and low beams on when switching to high beams. It's been a few years since I did this. No problems whatsoever. The diode idea was good, but they burned up nearly instantaneously. Got very very hot.

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Originally Posted by patrickvertigo

I found there isn't a need for a relay if you just ground the yellow wire on the Depo wiring harness. This will keep both the high and low beams on when switching to high beams. It's been a few years since I did this. No problems whatsoever. The diode idea was good, but they burned up nearly instantaneously. Got very very hot.

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Where did you mount the yellow wire? There werre no issues with current draw for both lights?

As long as you are running normal wattage bulbs, you wouldn't run into any issues. 55w low beams and 60w highs. I'm running 35w HIDs and 60w high beam halogens. As for the ground, any screw or bolt that is connected to the frame should work well. I ran a jumper wire from inside the connector on the depo wiring harness (where the yellow wire is) to a screw on the frame. There are other grounds in that area. Do the same for both sides. It won't overload the circuit. Let me know if you need more explanation.

I already lost my Climate and AC control lights installing a stereo illumination dimmer. Trying to chase down the problem before altering anything else. Would that work with 55w HID and 60W high beam?

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Originally Posted by ChampionshipW

I already lost my Climate and AC control lights installing a stereo illumination dimmer. Trying to chase down the problem before altering anything else. Would that work with 55w HID and 60W high beam?

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You shouldn't have a problem running those wattages. HIDs obviously have a spike in wattage when they first fire up, but you won't have your high beams on when you turn your HIDs on. Using a variation of Ohm's law you can figure out what kind of amperage you are pulling based on the voltage and wattage of the bulbs. Watts/Volts=Amps. In your case, 55w+60w=115w. 115w/12volts=9.58Amps. This is well within the means of a 15amp circuit and fuse. And actual voltage fluctuates in a car. Your voltage is actually somewhere closer to 14volts when the car is running lowering your amperage even more. Hope that all makes sense. Good luck with your climate control.

So I tried building a custom harness similarly to the wiring in the diagram in the earlier post. However, I noticed that the 85 & 86 were reversed on the Lobeam relay. 86 is power in and 85 power out on the coil. The blue wire is a power wire and should go to 86.

Now I pondered the situation of how i could easily improve the diagram. The short answer, ground the yellow wire to the low beam. The only problem is if you are running bulbs that are rated higher than factory, then this will cause a short. The factory wiring is 18 awg which is rated 7-10 amps. With the stock bulbs you will be running 9.4A. This is not taken into consideration a spike in the current under load. ( best to measure at the bulb with a multimeter) Secondly, there isn't anything protecting the bulb from shorting if there is a surge from ground. (Say lightning)

Therefore, the cheapest method to improvise the circuit is to use a diode connecting low ground to high ground after the bulb ( direction to High) However, you must use a diode that is rated for the amperage. (radio shack aint gonna cut it) Unfortunately, now the diode is a point of failure in the circuit.

So how do you fix the problem? Well, I found a solution which i will explain in a tutorial posted on youtube. The link will be provided below.

:tehehyper::tehehyper::tehehyper: I haven't figured a way to incorporate day running lights because I don't need them. Video's converting..

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Originally Posted by ChampionshipW

So I tried building a custom harness similarly to the wiring in the diagram in the earlier post. However, I noticed that the 85 & 86 were reversed on the Lobeam relay. 86 is power in and 85 power out on the coil. The blue wire is a power wire and should go to 86.

Now I pondered the situation of how i could easily improve the diagram. The short answer, ground the yellow wire to the low beam. The only problem is if you are running bulbs that are rated higher than factory, then this will cause a short. The factory wiring is 18 awg which is rated 7-10 amps. With the stock bulbs you will be running 9.4A. This is not taken into consideration a spike in the current under load. ( best to measure at the bulb with a multimeter) Secondly, there isn't anything protecting the bulb from shorting if there is a surge from ground. (Say lightning)

Therefore, the cheapest method to improvise the circuit is to use a diode connecting low ground to high ground after the bulb ( direction to High) However, you must use a diode that is rated for the amperage. (radio shack aint gonna cut it) Unfortunately, now the diode is a point of failure in the circuit.

So how do you fix the problem? Well, I found a solution which i will explain in a tutorial posted on youtube. The link will be provided below.

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Id like to see this link as well. You are saying that just grounding the low beam wire to the chassis is actually not good enough? I know a few guys have done this for years with no problems.