MotorMatrix or Cybernation?

[VBSI]

Why is comparing the Cybernation and SFP kit a mistake? I really don't want to waste $4000 of my companies money on the wrong choice. I think we can all be adults here and share info about the kits-good or bad. I realize that there are two kits and two shops-but I didn't intend for conflict-and I am a little disappointed in it. I just want facts and proof, along with a company that wants to sell me a turbo.

[ssvr6]

Originally posted by MotorMatrix.com
hey steve , any chance of you making it to the track tonight?? i think its midnight madness.

Nah. I spend the weekends with my family.

Steve

[MotorMatrix.com]

Originally posted by VBSI
Why is comparing the Cybernation and SFP kit a mistake? I really don't want to waste $4000 of my companies money on the wrong choice. I think we can all be adults here and share info about the kits-good or bad. I realize that there are two kits and two shops-but I didn't intend for conflict-and I am a little disappointed in it. I just want facts and proof, along with a company that wants to sell me a turbo.

I agree with you 100% on this too. the kit was just posted up there to show you guys the quality of it and that you have other options. you are a smart consumer for doing your research when making a huge purchase like this. dont buy somethign just cause its internet hyped. do your research and talk to everyone that has both kits before you buy. just my advice. good luck.

[MotorMatrix.com]

once again i am not selling this kit and its not my car. just passing 1st hand info from the owner of sfp's mouth.

dyno #'s are in!!

the sfp turbo kit on the Ep hatch has laid down 250whp at 6psi. this is on stock fuel system, no return line. stock injectors, no fmu,no missing link, stock ecu, catalytic converter and smog legal. all fuel is controlled with an aeromotive fuel controller. fuel curve is flat and safe even on stock injectors. the clutch started to slip 6psi so tuning was stopped there. I would say thats very impressive for a completely stock fuel system other than an inline pump.

[CSMsi311]

what is the duty cycle on the stock injectors? Although you say it is "safe" i would still be concerned. What is the fuel pressure? What is stock fuel pressure?

[02SilverSiHB]

Originally posted by CSMsi311
what is the duty cycle on the stock injectors? Although you say it is "safe" i would still be concerned. What is the fuel pressure? What is stock fuel pressure?

no kidding. I would want upgraded injectors no matter what. I'm guessing they are 250cc's

[REVwheels]

stock injectors are 270cc.

[02SilverSiHB]

Originally posted by REVwheels
stock injectors are 270cc.

well, that's not too bad. I think I'd rather have them at 290cc to just be safe. But if your A/F ratio is doing good, it must work just fine. I guess we'll know in a few months if your still running strong. I assume it's your car that motormatrix is talking about? I also like the fact you are getting those numbers with the cat and it's carb legal.

[REVwheels]

be safe and just get the type-s injectors...they are 310 and the car will idle perfect. i am going to do the same later when i can get a deal on them cuz right now they are like 132.00 ea. pretty damn expensive. i took the car out last nite to a local hang out...can ran good. beat up a modded audi TT quattro. and an EG with an ls/vtec spraying nos. clutch slipped hard at about 5500rpm...

[CSMsi311]

anyone know if injector duty cycle is calculated the same for returnless fuel systems?

this is from "Supercharged" by Corky Bell
cc/min = lbs/hr * 10.5

Injector rating in pounds per hour = max bhp *.55 / # of injectors

The .55 is a constant for BSFC (brake specific fuel consumption) for a supercharged engine. Another book i have says .53 for forced induction engines.

going by this standard. I assume the 250 hp is whp and not bhp. Standard transmission loose is around 15%. That gives you 295 bhp. By these equations, you'll need ~425 cc/min injectors if you are using the stock fuel pressure. Assuming these equations hold true for returnless fuel systems.

Out of curiousity, i ran the numbers for a stock si, 160 bhp, the BSFC would be less than .55 but for simplicy and I don't have that number in front of me; I'll stick with .55. I get ~230 cc/min injectors.

Finally, your injectors must pulse and the above numbers are for 100% duty cycle (no pulse). These numbers should be divided by your max. duty cycle you would want your injectors to operate at. Most people use 80% duty cycle.

[REVwheels]

I will try to answer this a simply as possible,
The fuel system on the si consists of
310 cc additional fuel pump,
fuel managment unit.
the 310 cc injectors are approx
20% larger than the stock injectors
at the same fuel pressure as the stock
injectors thus allowing for the ability
to make more horse power because of the additional fuel.
the second part is the addtional fuel pump, which allows
the ability to increase fuel pressure & volume. the third
thing is the fuel managment box, which serves very much
like and fmu. as boost is read by the map sensor, it raises
fuel pressure to the injectors. by rasing fuel pressure &
volume to the injectors the injectors flow a much higher
rate of fuel to the cylinders, without raising the duty cycle
of the injector. And the last part of the fuel system is
the alc injection. this has several advantages the first
is that it also help richen the fuel mixture because of the
alc. for example as the turbo comes into boost we use
a fogger nozzle to spray alc into the manifold it not
only richens the fuel mixture because of the alc,
it also cools the air temp , to prevent detonation,
especially usefull on higher compression turbo applications. None of these
products are reinventing
the wheel, in the ford market they havent had return
lines since 97 and they have been using this type
of products to solve fuel problems. The alc, inj,
has been useded widely by the buick turbo market,
to allow them to run boost levels as high as 28psi,
on pump gas. and as for the injectors the reason
only use a 310 cc is that it is very close to the factory
size, factory computer can controll them with no problem
especially in closed loop where the factory computer
is trying to make the vehicle run at a certain a/r ratio.
If the injector size is increased substatially, then
they are not able to control them within the factory
limits, which means rough idles, high fuel consumption,
stalling, check engine codes ect.

[CSMsi311]

so back to the previous question.
what is your fuel pressure set at (static) and what is the rising rate of the "fmu" box?

[REVwheels]

Originally posted by CSMsi311
so back to the previous question.
what is your fuel pressure set at (static) and what is the rising rate of the "fmu" box?

set at 55psi and the rising rate is 4 to 1.

[CSMsi311]

is the second fuel pump inline or parallel?

[REVwheels]

inline