do our engines suck?

[NwSI]

IMHO....

I think that our motor is a good motor. My problem with the Kseries thus far is i-vtec. Its a known fact that all North America destined vehicles are tuned to run appropriately in USA, Canada, and Mexico. That means that they are tuned to run efficiently at 87 octane. However they are built to run on the lowest possible octane in the market. In our case it could be as low as 78-80 Octane (In Mexico). It does not adjust for the nicer 91 you pump either. Its just tuned to not detonate at any point in the RPM range on the lowest possible octane. What this means is that your ignition advance, and in the case of i-vtec your cam timing advance are greatly retarted. This is to reduce the risk of detonation later in the RPM range. However its a pretty serious decrease in performance. Anyone who had a B-series will tell you that well tuned Adj. cam gears, with about 18-20 degrees of Ignition advance REALLY makes a considerable difference in the way the car accelerates off the line, and through the rev range. i-vtec has taken all of those tuning options away from us. THAT is what I dont like about i-vtec. We are stuck with a Stock ignition, and Cam timing map. No matter what you bolt onto the car (Short of Boost/N20) you are truly only increasing flow bottlenecks.. You are slightly increasing efficiency in and out of the motor. However for real power we are tied to the ECU :/

My hopes are 2 fold, first that the head swap option for putting the K20a head on our motors is not cost prohibitive. Second I hope that Apex, or someone like them steps up with the piggy back computer component to allow us to work with the i-vtec system and get our power back...

[esmith13]

What about the Skunk2 Cams for the A3 coming out the end of the year?? Would they not help with the problems you mentioned??? Obviously tapping into the ECU would be best, but you gotta start somewhere, right? ;)

Eric

[BlasTech]

Originally posted by NwSI
IMHO....

I think that our motor is a good motor. My problem with the Kseries thus far is i-vtec. Its a known fact that all North America destined vehicles are tuned to run appropriately in USA, Canada, and Mexico. That means that they are tuned to run efficiently at 87 octane. However they are built to run on the lowest possible octane in the market. In our case it could be as low as 78-80 Octane (In Mexico). It does not adjust for the nicer 91 you pump either. Its just tuned to not detonate at any point in the RPM range on the lowest possible octane. What this means is that your ignition advance, and in the case of i-vtec your cam timing advance are greatly retarted. This is to reduce the risk of detonation later in the RPM range. However its a pretty serious decrease in performance.

Does Hondata not address this issue? They say to up your octane when you have it to increase performance, and reduce the chance of detonation with 87. I would think that means they did advance the timing program, right?

Anyway, two bolt-ons wont put any economy car in front of a sports car with 40 more horsepower, unless one of em is a turbo. :D

[S800Racer]

Originally posted by AntiReality
Just like vbp si 03 said, our car is just a civic, and it's a 40HP gap between us and the RSX-S. Do I think our engines suck? Nope. It'd sure be helpful if we had the same i-VTEC system as the RSX-S but the K20A3 is still a great engine. It responds to mods almost as well as the RSX-S and has great potential whether you decide to go all motor or boost (although boost would seem like the more logical option with the A3).

Totally agree. Great engine. It's also well built and should run at least twice as long as anything not built by Honda.
It's also great for modding in two ways: 1) FI - this motor is VERY well suited for boosting. 2) NA - OK, the NA potential is limited BUT thank your lucky stars that this motor is so closely related to the A2 that you have some great NA options like swapping the trans for a 6 speed, slapping on the A2 head, or swapping for the complete A2 motor -- these are all direct, bolt-on operations with almost no special modifications required.
Compare all that to a Focus. While they can get 170 hp and a 6 speed off the lot, there is no easy to buy and install 200+hp Ford motor available. And those motors are never going to last like a Honda!

[EP2002]

I personally love the engine.

I used to have a 91 crx with a B16A swap. I miss that car, and my ep does not compare to my old crx. BUT, this car has so much more to offer. It may lack a little on the hp side. The car is heavier, and it's nothing that a supercharger can't help.

For all those who want to do a swap... DON'T!
It's a waste of money, it's a huge headache, and there are other ways to mod your car.

Just my 2 cents.

[Dunrick]

Originally posted by EP2002
I personally love the engine.

I used to have a 91 crx with a B16A swap. I miss that car, and my ep does not compare to my old crx. BUT, this car has so much more to offer. It may lack a little on the hp side. The car is heavier, and it's nothing that a supercharger can't help.

For all those who want to do a swap... DON'T!
It's a waste of money, it's a huge headache, and there are other ways to mod your car.

Just my 2 cents.

I agree w/ you that swap'n can be a headache, you never know where that engine has been. ha - anyways...I broke my a3 in really well, so I'll be going forced induction if anything....

its still got plenty of grunt for autox though....just not drag or road course.

[Hachiman]

I'm happy with what I've got. I'm not looking to be the fastest car on the street, heck I don't even race. I just wanted a fun car to drive on the street and on the track, and that's what I got.

All my money is going into suspension mods anyways.

[bloodzombie]

I'm a newbie, so I don't know much about modding, and though the reliability of the engine hasn't really been seen yet, since it's so new, I trust in honda on that side.

But seriously, there's no car that you can get for the same price that is anywhere near as fun to drive, and that's what really matters.

You can't spend 3 or 4 hundred on bolt-ons and expect it to beat sports car that costs thousands more.

[sniperSI]

I think alot of people only think of these cars in terms of the specs and final #'s. You cant yhink of our cars as a civic with 160hp. It just doesn't do it justice. Just like when people bitch about the NSX only being 280+ (whatever the exact number is for 2004) horsepower. It's not about the numbers it's about the car as a whole, from the intake charge, slamming thru the cylinders mixing with fuel, cams flapping left and right, gears spinning crazy fast, transferred down to the road on a set of sleek alloys as it shoots some hot clean air out of its rear pipe. It's a symphony of components that translate into the cleanest, and smoothest 160 hp out there in a car this size.

This is why our little SI can still run with some of the "big" n/a 4 cylinders (spec V, GTS, ect) and somewhat make it a drivers race rather then a race of numbers. (IMO)


....


in all reality anything is possible with this series engine. We have a rock solid block.

Everything else is just money..

[HeelToePro]

I think the EP is a great car. Why are you comparing the a3 to the a2? I own a RSX-s and used to own a EP3. I dont think comparing the a2 and a3 is fair. Why dont you compare your civic(EP) to the older Si's (99-00)? I know some of you guys think the EP sucks speed wise, but I have not yet seen a NA 99-00 civic beat a EP.
I would anyday take a A3 over any b16. Everybody who I see racing here and there knows, k20s kick ass!!

[anjapower]

Originally posted by HeelToePro
Why dont you compare your civic(EP) to the older Si's (99-00)? I know some of you guys think the EP sucks speed wise, but I have not yet seen a NA 99-00 civic beat a EP.
I would anyday take a A3 over any b16. Everybody who I see racing here and there knows, k20s kick ass!!

The B16 is so much better to build up N/A than the k20a3. The a3 only has i/h/e and hondata. If that is true about skunk2 coming out with cams for our motor, than that is some great news. I really do hope they do come out.

[foilpan]

Originally posted by anjapower


The B16 is so much better to build up N/A than the k20a3. The a3 only has i/h/e and hondata. If that is true about skunk2 coming out with cams for our motor, than that is some great news. I really do hope they do come out.

yeah, but you're just talking about bolt-ons. if you want to spend the money on custom engine work and tuning, you can probably get a whole lot from the k20a3. it obviously won't ever be an a2 or anything.

people who are crazy about modding their old chevelles or gtos or camaros or whatever usually end up doing some custom work on their engines if they want power. of course, there are bolt-ons and big block swaps, too. i'm sure the ep3 will have a decent array of ready-made HP increasing accessories in time.

give it time. we own economy cars that happen to be pretty quick, not supercars. if it bugs you that much, get a new car.

if my ep3 could quote popeye: i yam what i yam.

[audomatik]

why are you guys complaining about 3rd gear? do you stop before you even get out of 3rd? We can hit 90 before you shift to 4th. I think 3rd and and the beginning of 4th are good. Everything else is either too aggressive or not aggressive enough. Granted, we could've used another gear, i can live with it. Once I get Hondata it might settle things down a little bit., but not totally sure. It also seems our cars hit a flat spot between 6000-6700 in 4th... it just kinda slows and then picks up again in 5th and then really slows once you hit 120 mph (hey its boring when you're the only one on the highway at 330 am). I love the car, everyone that I give rides to are amazed at how fast they are compared to hear-say. Even 99-00 Si owners feel kinda ashamed, one friend wants to trade his in for a new one. Oh well... I love it.

[bioevolve]

There are more bolt-ons and things for A3:

JDM ITR Intake Manifold
JDM Throttle body
JR Race Header
Test Pipe and Race Cat
N2O
Turbo
Intake Tubes
Hondata Flash and IM Gasket
Exhaust
Port and Polish
Extrude Hone
Uderdrive Pulley
Carbon Fiber everything(less weight the better)
Pistons,Rods,rings
LSD,clutch,flywheel
ETC...................

Just gotta get all the combinations right, A3's are stout and can handle alot of stress. There is great potential for it.

[02SilverSiHB]

are engines suck for na, no fucking way are we going to hand with just na mods. Especially with the newer cars coming out and already out. Either boost, or get a type s motor with some toda cams, valve springs, toda reflash, and clutch flywheel and you'll love the NA 225 to the wheels and 153tq to the wheels.