do our engines suck?

[phatfreeza]

Originally posted by sniperSI
I think alot of people only think of these cars in terms of the specs and final #'s. You cant yhink of our cars as a civic with 160hp. It just doesn't do it justice. Just like when people bitch about the NSX only being 280+ (whatever the exact number is for 2004) horsepower. It's not about the numbers it's about the car as a whole, from the intake charge, slamming thru the cylinders mixing with fuel, cams flapping left and right, gears spinning crazy fast, transferred down to the road on a set of sleek alloys as it shoots some hot clean air out of its rear pipe. It's a symphony of components that translate into the cleanest, and smoothest 160 hp out there in a car this size.

This is why our little SI can still run with some of the "big" n/a 4 cylinders (spec V, GTS, ect) and somewhat make it a drivers race rather then a race of numbers. (IMO)


....


in all reality anything is possible with this series engine. We have a rock solid block.

Everything else is just money..

well written!

and my .02, you bought a car, that costs $4000 less than the type-s. use that $4000, get a turbo(i think they cost that much) and run him again. i'm guessing you'll put up a better race AND still look good in your ep. okay i dunno if a turbo would really beat a type-s as i'm not too familiar with the performance of a turbo on our car. but in any case, i LOVE the engine...it always wants to come out and play!

[K20A3Si]

our engine is has alot of potential....it is already awsome when it comes to low end torque...when ti comes to high end ...well thats when we need to start working....it does have teh potential to create some extra revs and make some decent power up top.....

[Kirei]

I guess it really depends on the point of view. For me, I think its very under powered and the engine if not changing the head, is very very limited. The whole purpose of getting rid of my 01 5spd accord was for something with more power. the 150hp and 143 ftlb of torque just did not have enough balls. My choice was the s2000 but the Si seemed a little more practical at the time since I had planned to go back to school and if I decide to quit my job which I dislike so much, I could still easily afford the monthly payments. At $240 a month, I guess I really cant complain. I got the Si, and for a long time, it felt as though the Si (10hp more but 10 less torque) was slower than my old accord. I was thinking maybe it just doesnt feel as fast behind inside the Si than the accord but after reading some of the threads about how our engine is really i-vtec-e, there was no doubt in my mind that the accord had to be faster. I always wondered why I couldnt feel the v-tec in the si and after reading about our engines and how i-vtec-e works, im truly dissapointed. If I was looking for a good gas milage car thats fun to drive, then I would've purchased a civic coupe that gets 38 miles per gallon with all the toys and gadgets for a little cheaper. My fault for not doing the research before i bought it. Now im debating if I should just purchase a used prelude SH or drop the k20a2 into it. Either one will keep me from bitching.

[eurosteez]

Originally posted by sniperSI
I think alot of people only think of these cars in terms of the specs and final #'s. You cant yhink of our cars as a civic with 160hp. It just doesn't do it justice. Just like when people bitch about the NSX only being 280+ (whatever the exact number is for 2004) horsepower. It's not about the numbers it's about the car as a whole, from the intake charge, slamming thru the cylinders mixing with fuel, cams flapping left and right, gears spinning crazy fast, transferred down to the road on a set of sleek alloys as it shoots some hot clean air out of its rear pipe. It's a symphony of components that translate into the cleanest, and smoothest 160 hp out there in a car this size. ..

*jumped up and cheered for my ep after reading this*

My 2 cents: the reason b16s respond to mods so well is cuz those old hatches were half the eps weight.
here is some ratios to prove my point.
1.6 liters/1400 pounds
2.0 liters 2800 pounds
roughly 400 more cc for 1400 more pounds to haul.

B16 has way higher horsepower per cc. and thats why it responds to N\A mods so well. give the a3 so time. And everyone please stop bitching about how slow the a3s are. Go to a Focus forum and tell them what they wanna here instead of pissing everyone in here off. (at least me)

theres not a car under 17k that can beat the ep.

[rs_1101]

yea ill admit im alittle pissed off at that article that accuses the ep of being like a "guinea pig" for honda vtec labs. but i still believe that the a3 block is good, and most of our components arent too bad, but its still more of an acura than a civic. its got too much fancy computer crap that belongs in a mercedes or somethin. when u buy a civic to race, all u want is 4 wheels and a motor. none of this safety first crap, and the new vtec system makes it almost impossible to defeat emmisions.

but the a2 head swap has merit, and y not boost your car, but MOST OF ALL. i want to get some piggyback ecu crap goin on so that 91 i stick in there makes a DIFFERENCE.

[sniperSI]

Swap your head and ECU. Get the hondata flash for the Type R and i think we'll be set. Swaping the head gives us the real VTEC and high redline. Hell i wonder after swaping all that and go to the base RSX IM with the dual runners the engine would sound FIERCE.

[Sb00]

i don't know much about tuning and stuff like that but simply put...

there will always be something faster than you

and what kind of mpg will you be gettin with all of those mods.... definatly won't be a daily driver car then, which is what imo most of us have bought the Si, to be a fun daily driver.

that's just me though..

[sniperSI]

You'll probably get the same MPG the Type S, but probably better gets ;)

Swapping the head = Get the Type S cylinder head and put it in our cars, more aggresive cam profile, better valvetrain, and the REAL vtec system on both intake and exhaust.

Type S ECU with hondata reflash for the Type S (you can get custom 8000 rpm flash if you wish) and finaly the rsx base IM with the dual runners so it will bascicaly have the same setup as the DC2 integra type R in regards to the mechanics of the vtec. Dual running mainfolds, vtec on both intake and exhaust with the benfit of VTC.

Sounds like my dream setup.


All this can be done btw for under 2500 bucks, and you won't sacrifice gas milage.

edit; Come to think about it, you don't even need a typeS ecu. You can just get our's flashed with the type S program

[NwSI]

DC2 Type R's do not have the dual stage manifold. B18c3 was the only production motor which had the dual stage runners (Which Were Gimp) the B18c5 has the "standard" single entry intake manifold. Which is why that is such a great upgrade for the B16/B18c3(With Mods on the c3).

This is just a repeat but the HeadSwap/ECU flash is the only hope of getting rid of i-vtec. However my worry is that we wont be able to find Swap yard heads bcs the wreckers are going to require you to buy the whole long block with accessories bcs its worth more as one piece..

Time shall tell....

[vie-tec]

EP3 EP3 EP3 EP3 EP3 EP3 EP3 EP3 EP3 EP3 EP3 EP3 EP3 EP3
IF ANYONE ON HERE THAT DOESN'T LIKE THEIR EP3
LET ME KNOW,SO I CAN GO OVER THERE AND SMOKE IT UP FOR U!
SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO DRIV IT NO MORE.LOL...
PEOPLE THESE DAYS JUST GIVING UP TO SOON>HANG IN THERE!
WE WILL HAVE ALOT OF TOYS TO PLAY WITH SOON.;)

[chunky]

the a3 is more similar to the a2 than it is different.

[Rey]

Has anyone thought about compression ratio?? I would put a turbo on my EP way before I do on a RSX-S. The copression ration is too high in the RSX-S. You could blow your engine pretty quick. I think ours is like 9.8:1, and RSX-S is like 11:1, and the Integra-R is like 11.7:1. That does a big difference in power/liter category. Most turbo'ed engines run at 9.0:1 and lower compression for stability and longevity.

Another thing that plays a huge role is weight. OMG, if we dropped our engine in a CRX, imagine what it could do......

I freakin love my car. Best bang for the buck, and I don't care who says what. It still shuts up all the punks that drive around in honda's with the 100 hp SOHC cars with a huge wing and a shit load of stickers to hide their horrible paint job.


Another thing about power/weight ratio. I used to love the old corolla, just because of the 20 valve 4age swap that can make it do 14's in no time, till I saw this car. There are too many haters in this world, and when we do decide to work together, then we can earn some respect from those b16/b18/h22/A2 drivers.

Thank you.
Anything is possible.

[ALTERED SI]

its to early for our engines to get real power i have a big hope we will get better soon dont sleep on our engines i see my boys doing 14.1 in a 1/4 mile yeap we will rule soon !!!!

[BlasTech]

Heh, someone just mentioned the other day that Honda is no longer making the B-Series, and the hard-core guys do go through them, sometimes 1 a year. They are already going up in price, but eventually they will just be impossible to find.

[BarracksSi]

Originally posted by Sb00
i don't know much about tuning and stuff like that but simply put...

there will always be something faster than you

Note the "always". It's true, there's no car that can never be beaten.

If all you want to do is race, you've going to be pouring cash into that bottomless money pit called "Beat The Guy Faster Than You". Yeah, you can make the EP ridiculously fast, but you'll get spanked by some Chevy or Subaru or something and want to do even more because you feel that your car is somehow suddenly worthless.

It's a great car, it's better than the press seems to think (most of what they ever learn is from a day at the track with the likes of the SVT Focus and Sentra SE-R), and I'm quite satisfied.

And, the K20A3 is, like any Honda I've driven so far, in the top echelon of 4-cylinder engines when it comes to linear delivery, smoothness, reliability, and overall livability. As others have said, it's already well-suited for boosting, and the mods are just beginning.

Did the B-series motors reach astronomical N/A power figures within two years of their introduction? I highly doubt it. There's a lot of stuff for those motors now (at least for the ones that remain) -- imagine the aftermarket development of the K series in 5-10 years.