Anti-Lock Brakes

[EP3ME]

re: on the ep3, you'll almost never feel abs on a road course.

The reason that you guys aren't feeling that shitty abs kicking in on road courses is because you probably have stock cables. I put the Mugen brake cables on my beast and they are far more sensitive to feel... I sense that stupid abs kicking in constantly and it's dog shit!!! abs=rice

abs is for nuns and padres!!!

[BlasTech]

I understand what you're saying, but "rice?"

c'mon. To me a big fat wing is rice, because its not needed, and people do it because racers do it. So you could argue that removing your ABS is rice, "because racers dont need it", even though the lot of us are better off with it.

Its a practical thing, its a safe thing, and thats not "rice" to me.

[EP3ME]

Well yes... you are right. I am joking when I say "rice". ABS certainly has it's place as an essential safety item. My own preference is to disengage the freggin' thing however!!!

[BlasTech]

I gotta admit, you've got me curious about disengaging it too.

I know this guy at the local track who took a girl's M3-roadster out for fun, and it must have had the ABS off, because he flat-spotted her Hoosiers. That little fun run cost him $600.

[02SilverSiHB]

Originally posted by EP3ME

I put the Mugen brake cables on my beast and they are far more sensitive to feel... I sense that stupid abs kicking in constantly and it's dog shit!!!

I guess I could see that happening. make since why you wouldn't like it

[Low Rider]

I've never been big on ABS myself!

[pedzola]

ABS saved my ass today. Sliding down my driveway (ice) into oncoming traffic I decided to test out just how good this crap is. Jammed the brake down, and lo and behold the car stopped. That metal gnashing feel/sound is kind of unnerving but it worked!

[Ocelaris]

I was reading somewhere, that adding bigger calipers and/or pressure to your brake setup will mess up your ABS? I forget which site exactly had the info, but they had an EP3 kit, and tons of info on brakes...

The company selling the kit had a 4piston (or something like that) caliper setup of the same internal volume as our caliper... so that it wouldn't be stopping the brakes at an increased speed, which messes up the hardwired ABS sensor. something to the extent that the OEM pressure is known to exert a certain amount of force, and when you add these bigger calipers, hence larger volume, you get more pressure, and either you drain your Master cylinder reserve, or mess up your ABS system which actually increases the stopping distance of your brakes... So I wanna know what these people who dealt with this conflict did.

I mean, Chunky et all whom are pleased with their brake setup, what are you using? Taking into consideration using 225/50/15 rims (which I will upgrade to when my stock tires die)... what options are really available as far as rotor and caliper upgrades within that small size?



This reminds me of John Henry vs. the Steam Shovel... yes, John Henry won, but he died too :p

[BlasTech]

This is an interesting point the conversation's coming to:

Do certain upgrades throw your ABS off?

Apparently so.

Lurk around in the H-T roadracers forum for a couple of months... all they worry about is pads and fluid. Rotors (usually oem spec blanks) are just another disposable item like tires, and calipers are often stock... and there's a good argument or two about steel vs. oem brake lines, too.

[chunky]

Originally posted by EP3ME
re: on the ep3, you'll almost never feel abs on a road course.

The reason that you guys aren't feeling that shitty abs kicking in on road courses is because you probably have stock cables. I put the Mugen brake cables on my beast and they are far more sensitive to feel... I sense that stupid abs kicking in constantly and it's dog shit!!! abs=rice

abs is for nuns and padres!!!

mugen brake cables?

you mean braided stainless steel brake lines?

Brake lines do not affect the engagement of ABS. Wether or not you can feel the ABS pulsing in the pedal, you can always tell when ABS is going off. ABS rarely comes on for me when on the track or on the street.

instead of complainging about ABS, why don't you disconnect it if you don't need it? it's not that hard, all you do is pull a few fuses.

[jedimario]

Yeah, this thread is a good seven years old, but it's a good thread and I had an experience this weekend so I'm bringing it back up.

For the past 6 months or so, I've been autocrossing an FB RX-7 on RA1s. Manual brakes with no ABS. This car is amazing, and I love to drive it. I had almost no trouble keeping from locking the brakes up; serious effort was required to get any stopping power compared to the power brakes on the EP. Anyway, I was obviously much faster in this car than I had ever been in the EP, even though I'd never had any real trouble with the EP's ABS in the past. For more reasons than the brakes, of course, but being able to take the tires all the way to their limit was a huge plus.

Then, yesterday, I autocrossed the EP for the first time in quite a while. The first time I got into a hard braking zone, the ABS kicked straight in and really killed any stopping power I had. I struggled with it all day and didn't do very well as a result. Thing is, even while trail braking, the ABS was kicking in far before the tires ran out of grip. My tires are not terribly grippy, but the ABS was kicking in far before it should have. I would have been better off locking up my first couple of runs and adjusting for that in my later runs. ABS, when not properly implemented, does severely impede stopping distance.

After my runs, I drove a hillclimb-prepped Miata with power brakes, Hawk HP pads, 7lb 13" Keizers and 245 Hoosier slicks. The opposite happened; first hard braking zone resulted in a 10-20 foot lock up. But I adjusted for it and didn't make that mistake again.

My immediate reaction was to want to disable the ABS on the EP. After reading this thread, I still want to, but I want to figure out just where the car's and tires' limits are and see just how big of a difference it makes. The things said in here made me think, but I'm not convinced. I still think a skilled driver that doesn't panic in extreme situations (and I know I do not easily panic behind the wheel from past driving experience) can be a safer driver without blanketed electronic aid. But for the average Joe that knows nothing about driving, ABS is obviously safer.

[Drew1d]

ABS stops a car faster...it just does. If it keeps going off, put on better tires. (no slip, no abs.)

[jedimario]

How exactly does it stop the car faster? A continuous stream of pressure slowing the car at the tires' maximum level of grip stops the car slower than switching between some unknown pressure and no pressure at all? That certainly doesn't make mathematical sense.

[Drew1d]

How exactly does it stop the car faster? A continuous stream of pressure slowing the car at the tires' maximum level of grip stops the car slower than switching between some unknown pressure and no pressure at all? That certainly doesn't make mathematical sense.

Each tire and brakes will not have the same forces acting on it, but you are given one pedal to control them all?

The pulsing is jarring, and feels like if you just didn't have it, the car would stop quicker, but it's not true. For us mere humans, that hit the brakes, and don't have the piece of mind to feather, or pump the brakes rapidly just before hitting that oak tree, ABS. If you are that .5% that could can do it better than the machine, I applaud you. But bare in mind, even experts make mistakes, and mistakes with your brakes could cost you big.

On the track, if you feel better without, sure. But on the streets, ABS.

[jedimario]

So, to amend your statement, ABS stops cars faster for 99.5% of drivers and not everyone then?