My small review....

[Gearhead Geek]

...of the A2 head swap :D
Ok, so, I got the car back yesterday, but I didn't post cause running on the A3 ecu, well, sucks donkey nuts. The fuel map is all wrong, you can tell by the smell it's runnin really rich with the 310cc injectors, it hesitates from 2200rpm to about 3000, etc etc etc.
So anyways, this morning I dropped it off to get the keys flashed to work. Get a call around noon sayin it's done, went, picked it up, fired it up, all the keys worked fine. So, I took it to a back corner of the parking lot to rev it up real quick. I however didn't realize that with the A2 ecu, you can't rev past 6000 when you're at idle. So, I took it out for a spin. So I went easy at first, but then I couldn't resist. So, at WOT, 5800rpm rolled around...and then....WHAM. Holy shit does it scream. Just watching how quickly the tach flew to the 28mph mark on the speedo (yes, you read that right, it hits the limiter where the 28mph mark is) was amazing. It seriously pulls like a raped ape. So, came to a stop sign, hit it again, and of course...I got a CEL. So, went back to Honda, had the guy who flashed the keys scan it for me, and get a code about the CKP VTC oil pressure solenoid/switch. So he cleared the code for me, and it didn't come back. So, I went back to school, and no CEL still. Then I got a call from him, tellin me there was a TSB. Turns out there's an issue with some of the earlier sensors, that they get stuck. To the best that me, and 3 other mechanics could figure out, it's just that the oil wasn't warm enough and flowing well enough, so it caused it to stick. So, went back to school (after a little joy ride with civic si hb), came back out after class, fired it up, left school...and guess what, another CEL. So, went to another shop, had em clear the code for me, and went about my merry way. I'll be ordering a replacement solenoid tomorrow ($80 part, no big deal), to fix the issue. Aside from that one problem though, everything runs awesome.
Now, for what I'm sure a lot of you are wondering....does it fall out of vtec with the 5 speed? Well, yes and no. 1st to 2nd gear, it falls out by about 400rpms, even if you give it gas while shifting. It may not seem like much, but it's enough to piss you off in the 1/4 mile. 2nd to 3rd is about 200-300 rpms off, but if you gas while shifting, you can keep it in vtec. 3rd to 4th stays in beautifully, and as for 4th to 5th, i really can't say, because 4th gear redlines at around 120mph or more by my estimates, and I haven't had a clear enough stretch of road to test it yet. All in all, I'm more than confident that the A2 Hondata flash (the one that keeps the stock rev limit of 8100) would solve all the problems. 5200rpm is exactly where the vtec point needs to be for the swap.
So, all in all, I have to say the swap was well worth it. The sound, the pull, the raised (and more stable) redline, is just amazing. The CEL is a little annoying, but the solenoid will be replaced in a few days, and that will be a thing of the past. Oh, and for those of you with ES MM inserts, get ready to invest in a J's Racing Damper, cause wheel hop returns. The A2 Head returns enough power in the low end to give wheel hop again.
And for those of you wondering, yes, I did take it to the track already, but the track conditions were less than optimal, and the falling out of VTEC really hurts (I estimate, along with civic si hb, that falling out of VTEC is accounting for at least a second on the 1/4 time, but we also are both estimating that once it's fixed [with Hondata] it should be a mid to low 14's setup).

[FurY]

good god there's like 20 of these threads!

[Ep3 No.2]

only 10 to be exact...

[Gearhead Geek]

sorry about all the duplicate posts. had some network troubles. deleted them though (except for one, which wouldn't give me an edit/delete option. but i'm sure one of you cool moderator type people can take care of it :) )

[the JigGa mAn]

how much did this all cost you in the end? head,pre-install(the thread with the cleaned up head and some tests done), and install...if you dont me askin...

also if you could go back and do the head swap or a complete motor/trans swap which would you do?


oh and GREAT review..reading your about your excitement gave me goose bumps

[Peking]

Originally posted by Gearhead Geek
sorry about all the duplicate posts. had some network troubles. deleted them though (except for one, which wouldn't give me an edit/delete option. but i'm sure one of you cool moderator type people can take care of it :) )

Just got rid of it :)

[Makross]

cool review...do you know whats your compression ratio?

[oogy-boogy]

Great write up Tim. Looking forward to sitting in the passenger seat :)

[Low Rider]

So how annoying is this Vtec drop off issue???

[Gearhead Geek]

Cost as it stands right now: ~$2750 (Still need to get the replacement solenoid and a k-pro at some point)

If given the chance, would I do a motor swap instead? No. The lower compression of the A3 motor is much better for boosting, which is what I intend to do. Plus, if I ever decide to get a K24 bottom end, I won't feel as if I'm throwing as much money down the drain :)

How annoying is the VTEC drop off issue? Well, for daily driving, it's not too bad. In the 1/4, it's pretty annoying. It's really just the 1st to 2nd shift. 2nd to 3rd will stay in VTEC if you gas while shifting. However, the #2 Hondata flash for the RSX-S should solve the problem entirely (or a K-Pro running the #2 map :p)

[the JigGa mAn]

Originally posted by Gearhead Geek
Cost as it stands right now: ~$2750 (Still need to get the replacement solenoid and a k-pro at some point)

If given the chance, would I do a motor swap instead? No. The lower compression of the A3 motor is much better for boosting, which is what I intend to do. Plus, if I ever decide to get a K24 bottom end, I won't feel as if I'm throwing as much money down the drain :)

How annoying is the VTEC drop off issue? Well, for daily driving, it's not too bad. In the 1/4, it's pretty annoying. It's really just the 1st to 2nd shift. 2nd to 3rd will stay in VTEC if you gas while shifting. However, the #2 Hondata flash for the RSX-S should solve the problem entirely (or a K-Pro running the #2 map :p)

just curious how much does a complete type S swap cost..

how much of a gain do you think you got with the head swap? and if you decide to get a k24 do you happen to know the approx #s that would produce?

what year is your type S ecu from? b/c the 2004 si doesnt let you rev past about 4500 or 5000 at when in N...so i was wondering if you get an earlyer year ECU can that fix the issue of not being able to rev past 6000

oh and one more thing...where can i find a k20a2 or k20a head for somewhat cheap


sorry for all the questions im like curious jigar

[Gearhead Geek]

Originally posted by the JigGa mAn
just curious how much does a complete type S swap cost..

how much of a gain do you think you got with the head swap? and if you decide to get a k24 do you happen to know the approx #s that would produce?

what year is your type S ecu from? b/c the 2004 si doesnt let you rev past about 4500 or 5000 at when in N...so i was wondering if you get an earlyer year ECU can that fix the issue of not being able to rev past 6000

oh and one more thing...where can i find a k20a2 or k20a head for somewhat cheap


sorry for all the questions im like curious jigar

well, from what i've seen, you're lookin at 4000 to 6000 $ for a full from clip of an A2 or A. As for gains, I'm estimating I'm at around 170 to 175 whp now, however I won't know for sure till I dyno. The Hondata flash should also bring it up a little bit. My ECU is a 2003 I believe, however I'm not to concerned about being able to rev past 6000 while in neutral. Infact, once I get better tires, it'll work out well for launching. As for where to find an A2 or an A head, I got mine on eBay, however they seem to be pretty rare on there. My best advice would be to watch eBay, but also to checkout junkyards for totaled RSX-S's.
And about the questions, don't worry about it. If I didn't wanna be answering questions, I wouldn't have told anyone I did the swap :)

[Siman]

can you tell any top end rpm power loss with the 9.8-1 compression?

I was just wondering that....i am doing a weird swap this sommer....and debating on weather to change the pistons to the type-s or ITR's.....is the lower compression killing your top end or...?

and how does the motor feel at those revs? does it feel "safe" at that redline? i know the K20A2 has once balancer shaft vs. our two....

:D

[fsugatorbait]

good news tim, glad to hear you got everything up and running with only a minor hitch. You know were gonna have to get together in a few weeks to compare notes, preferrably at the track. ;)

[PAPITUYO326]

K20A2.5s RULE lo

great review...cant wait to see numbers when u get it dynod/take it to the track