AEM Big Brake Kit

[DownTheHatch]

Does this look worth it? They changed their kits, they're no longer shiney and cross-drilled, they're now flat black and slotted.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=1871394668

[yomamaInMySi]

Get those and then go get a pair of front light weight calipers from Wilwood.

[DocofMind]

What AEM has done is only in their benefit. Not yours.

This is not a big brake kit. This is a kit that allows you to use a larger rotor. Nothing really doing here, just aesthetics. More importantly, they did away with the thing that was good about the system, the fact that teh rotors were two piece. Being one piece saves them money on manufacturing and produces an inferior product. First of all, its heavier being 1 piece, secondly, its horrible for performance applications. While a rotor goes through therman cycling (the continuous process of being heated and cooled when driving) the hub of the rotor and the disc of the rotor reach different temperatures. The advantage of a 2 piece rotor is that it allows the two to move and flex independantly without creating stress on the rotor. The hat and actual disc reach different temps which is why they move differently. That is why rotors crack, not because they are drilled. That is also why they did away with the drilling, because these are 1 piece, they will be more prone to cracking under extreme conditions.

If you are in the market for upgrading your brakes, i will be doing a step by step detailed install on my own car in a couple of weeks. I am awaiting delivery of my wheels. A 16 inch wheel is needed for the larger diamter rotor.

One of the members here already has the first version of the kit on his car already. I will be installing the latest version which utilizes a FORGED 4 piston caliper and a directionally veined 2 piece rotor
As an added bonus, this kit will drop about 15- 18 pounds of unsprung weight off our front wheels. So that means it actually makes you go faster too, lol. Seriously

[Jpax]

Originally posted by DocofMind
What AEM has done is only in their benefit. Not yours.
I will be installing the latest version which utilizes a FORGED 4 piston caliper and a directionally veined 2 piece rotor
As an added bonus, this kit will drop about 15- 18 pounds of unsprung weight off our front wheels. So that means it actually makes you go faster too, lol. Seriously

I would like to see when your done. im getting 17" and i would like and upgread on my breaking system.

[jaydub]

I just asked my friend who works at AEM about these this past weekend, and I wasn't under the impression that they had hit the market yet.

[DownTheHatch]

Doc, your post is a real eye opener, thanks for the information.

I'll stay away from AEM's kit. If I do upgrade it will probably be the Brembo kit, can't go wrong with Brembo.

[DocofMind]

Originally posted by PaXiE


I would like to see when your done. im getting 17" and i would like and upgread on my breaking system.

I ll do a step by step install of the system so you can see not only how easy it is, but exactly what is invloved.

More coming. Now only if my damn wheels would get here

[DocofMind]

Originally posted by DownTheHatch
Doc, your post is a real eye opener, thanks for the information.

I'll stay away from AEM's kit. If I do upgrade it will probably be the Brembo kit, can't go wrong with Brembo.

My pleasure man, anything i can do to help you guys. I have been doing this for quite a long time and made MANY mistakes along the way.


Just for you reference though, just becase it says Brembo, doesnt mean anything. I wont get into any bashing here because i do luv their products, but for the correct application.

Most of the kits available are not designed for japanese cars. The diameter of the pistons in the caliper do not correlate well the bore and stroke of our master cylinders. Which results in poor feel and even worse stopping distances. Take a look at Sport Compact Cars tech article from a couple months back on the Suby they did with the big brake kit. Or take a look at last months article they did on the own Sylvia conversion. Both systems lacked the proper pressure to work properly resulting in the need for a proportioning valve.

In addition, the weight of the systems are almost identical to the factory set most weigh a few pounds more. No help there with unsprung weight.

My set up has been used and proven on the track with my S2000. I am going to use the same components on the EP so i know it will work properly and effectively. And as i wrote above, it drops almost 10 pounds of weight off each front wheel. If you want to get an idea of what this feel s like, go out and put some 18 inch bling bling wheels on the front and see how lame your car feels. Then take them off and you will get only a small taste of what it is really goiong to be.

Next, i m going to be doing something for the rear do even further improve the braking. This should hopefully be done by the end of the year.

[chunky]

Originally posted by DocofMind
What AEM has done is only in their benefit. Not yours.

This is not a big brake kit. This is a kit that allows you to use a larger rotor. Nothing really doing here, just aesthetics. More importantly, they did away with the thing that was good about the system, the fact that teh rotors were two piece. Being one piece saves them money on manufacturing and produces an inferior product. First of all, its heavier being 1 piece, secondly, its horrible for performance applications. While a rotor goes through therman cycling (the continuous process of being heated and cooled when driving) the hub of the rotor and the disc of the rotor reach different temperatures. The advantage of a 2 piece rotor is that it allows the two to move and flex independantly without creating stress on the rotor. The hat and actual disc reach different temps which is why they move differently. That is why rotors crack, not because they are drilled. That is also why they did away with the drilling, because these are 1 piece, they will be more prone to cracking under extreme conditions.

If you are in the market for upgrading your brakes, i will be doing a step by step detailed install on my own car in a couple of weeks. I am awaiting delivery of my wheels. A 16 inch wheel is needed for the larger diamter rotor.

One of the members here already has the first version of the kit on his car already. I will be installing the latest version which utilizes a FORGED 4 piston caliper and a directionally veined 2 piece rotor
As an added bonus, this kit will drop about 15- 18 pounds of unsprung weight off our front wheels. So that means it actually makes you go faster too, lol. Seriously

I don't like AEM's big brake kits very much, but I have to disagree with you when you say that larger rotors are for asthetics only.

1) they increase the leverage of the pad on the hub, thereby increasing brake torque.

2) they increase surface area, which leads to lower brake temps

the only time you need a two piece rotor is when the hub & disc of the rotor are made of two different materials. Different materials have different rates of expansion due to heat, when it's all the same material, that's not an issue.

the best rotors are either forged or some flavor of carbon/ceramic composite - but always one piece.

[nikkotyper]

Update me on that braking kit ... I just went to Laguna Seca and my brakes were fading. After the first session they were cooked (actually you could see the smoke coming out.) I bled the fluid (Motul RBF600) during the lunch just to be sure and that was not it. Sure, the stock pads did not help either.

[DocofMind]

Originally posted by chunky


I don't like AEM's big brake kits very much, but I have to disagree with you when you say that larger rotors are for asthetics only.

1) they increase the leverage of the pad on the hub, thereby increasing brake torque.

2) they increase surface area, which leads to lower brake temps

the only time you need a two piece rotor is when the hub & disc of the rotor are made of two different materials. Different materials have different rates of expansion due to heat, when it's all the same material, that's not an issue.

the best rotors are either forged or some flavor of carbon/ceramic composite - but always one piece.

Okay, i will give you that the larger diameter rotor does indeed apply more torque. However, the surface area of the brake pad is not changing because it utlizes the factory pad. True that the rotors area is larger, but really that is minimal. In fact, what the kit does do, is push the caliper further up which adds unprung weight to the worse possible place to accomodate the larger rotor.

Now for the issue you bring up regarding 1 and 2 piece rotors. This comment is completely false. Even though the hub and the rotor on a factory set up are made of the same materials, they do not expand and shrink at the same rate. Under load, you will see the disc temps reach anywhere from 700 to 1000 degrees. You will not see the hub exceed 500 degrees. Because of this difference iin temperature, the continual process of thermal cycling will cause minor stress crack s to appear which will eventually lead to a cracked and or warped rotor.

I have seen a few OEM rotors off a s2000 practially disintegrate under track conditions. Small stress cracks that eventually led to hazardous situation.

My main grip about all this, is the price. For $400, there are a lot of other options available that i believe will function better than this. More importantly, Wilwood has their own kit which is a true big brake kit for a few hundred more. Even further, i manufactured my own version of the wilwood kit that uses forged 4 piston and a directionally veined 2 piece rotor that is 12.2 inches in diameter. All for under $800.

[yomamaInMySi]

True Do, you can get a nice kit for under 800, pair of wilwoods and some nice 11 or 12 rotors.

[!@#$%]

Originally posted by DocofMind


Okay, i will give you that the larger diameter rotor does indeed apply more torque. However, the surface area of the brake pad is not changing because it utlizes the factory pad. True that the rotors area is larger, but really that is minimal. In fact, what the kit does do, is push the caliper further up which adds unprung weight to the worse possible place to accomodate the larger rotor.

Now for the issue you bring up regarding 1 and 2 piece rotors. This comment is completely false. Even though the hub and the rotor on a factory set up are made of the same materials, they do not expand and shrink at the same rate. Under load, you will see the disc temps reach anywhere from 700 to 1000 degrees. You will not see the hub exceed 500 degrees. Because of this difference iin temperature, the continual process of thermal cycling will cause minor stress crack s to appear which will eventually lead to a cracked and or warped rotor.

I have seen a few OEM rotors off a s2000 practially disintegrate under track conditions. Small stress cracks that eventually led to hazardous situation.

My main grip about all this, is the price. For $400, there are a lot of other options available that i believe will function better than this. More importantly, Wilwood has their own kit which is a true big brake kit for a few hundred more. Even further, i manufactured my own version of the wilwood kit that uses forged 4 piston and a directionally veined 2 piece rotor that is 12.2 inches in diameter. All for under $800.

if everything works out on the EP as it did on ur S2k, think we could set up a group buy?

[DocofMind]

Originally posted by !@#$%


if everything works out on the EP as it did on ur S2k, think we could set up a group buy?

As soon as my wheels get here for the EP, i will do a write up on the install and get you guys some pics as well.

I will be glad to set up a group by for you guys as well. Im off to SEMA today but when i get back i ll try to get the ball rolling.

[chunky]

Originally posted by DocofMind


Okay, i will give you that the larger diameter rotor does indeed apply more torque. However, the surface area of the brake pad is not changing because it utlizes the factory pad. True that the rotors area is larger, but really that is minimal. In fact, what the kit does do, is push the caliper further up which adds unprung weight to the worse possible place to accomodate the larger rotor.

pad surface area does not change - but mostly it's the rotor that needs cooling - unless you have pads not well suited to the temps in your usage. There is an appreciable change in rotor surface area, which leads to more effective cooling.

I'm not a huge fan of big brake kits, but they do work well for people who are on a budget but need more effective brake cooling.

Now for the issue you bring up regarding 1 and 2 piece rotors. This comment is completely false. Even though the hub and the rotor on a factory set up are made of the same materials, they do not expand and shrink at the same rate. Under load, you will see the disc temps reach anywhere from 700 to 1000 degrees. You will not see the hub exceed 500 degrees. Because of this difference iin temperature, the continual process of thermal cycling will cause minor stress crack s to appear which will eventually lead to a cracked and or warped rotor.

The two piece design ends up creating a "floating" rotor. My main gripe about this design is that it gives up strength - only a handful of bolts hold the actual rotor to the hub.

Stress cracks take time to form, and are not common at all with properly treated rotors (it's either annealing or hot tempering, i forget which) But the way I look at it, rotors are disposable parts. A good team would log the miles on the rotors, and toss them out before there's any chance of cracking leading to catastropic failure.

I have seen a few OEM rotors off a s2000 practially disintegrate under track conditions. Small stress cracks that eventually led to hazardous situation.

OEM parts always have questionable reliabilty under track conditions, ESP brakes. If they were at the point of disintegration, it seems to me that the owner was expecting too much of them - any quality one piece rotor would have held together for at least a year under even the most torturous conditions. That's why brakes are the first real mod I do to any car i've owned.

My main grip about all this, is the price. For $400, there are a lot of other options available that i believe will function better than this. More importantly, Wilwood has their own kit which is a true big brake kit for a few hundred more. Even further, i manufactured my own version of the wilwood kit that uses forged 4 piston and a directionally veined 2 piece rotor that is 12.2 inches in diameter. All for under $800.

I agree, most big brake kits aren't worth the money to me. but some people NEED a braking solution and have a set budget. in this case, they're useful. They're saved the expense of new calipers, but get the benfits of a larger rotor. Down the road, when they can afford it, they can get the more rigid calipers. But sadly, they also give the folks who're all about the show slap on some hugeass rotors that they don't even need.