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  1. #46
    Autox4u.com MugsyTheGr8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musashi1219 View Post
    oh one more thing... everyone is always in a rush to get into gear... remember a blown trans is slower than the next guy who took his time and selected the correct gear.



    Off I go... negotiating terms on teaching the ZR-1 introductory class for GM
    do you have anymore info on the cheater plates you were talking about in another thread? i have the basic idea in my head, but if you have done it or have pics of it, it would help alot.

  2. #47
    boogers! musashi1219's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MugsyTheGr8 View Post
    do you have anymore info on the cheater plates you were talking about in another thread? i have the basic idea in my head, but if you have done it or have pics of it, it would help alot.
    http://www.mz3.net/articles/images/189-heel.jpg

    this is a terrible example but look at how the bottom of the pedal kicks out a bit.

    You need to move your foot less to hit the gas. The ones we have on some of the vettes are a little bit different. They arent as flashy but they work very well.

    I like the pedals to start someone off with but I prefer that everyone i teach gets to be proficient with standard pedals.


    Oh and one tip I forgot


    NEVER COMPROMISE YOUR POSITION ON THE BRAKE PEDAL for a throttle blip. Hitting a wall is slower than doing a standard downshift.

  3. #48
    Registered User robertelegal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by L337Ep3 View Post
    Alright, I've gotten pretty good at heel toeing and do it most of the time I downshift.

    But can someone please clarify double clutching for me. What is the point of taking your foot off the clutch when you go into neutral, why don't you just keep the clutch pedal depressed and rev match it? eh someone please clarify.
    If you want to hear some good double clutching...watch the famous chase scene from Bullitt. Steve McQueen is double clutching his Mustang...it sounds like music.

  4. #49
    Autox4u.com MugsyTheGr8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musashi1219 View Post
    http://www.mz3.net/articles/images/189-heel.jpg

    NEVER COMPROMISE YOUR POSITION ON THE BRAKE PEDAL for a throttle blip. Hitting a wall is slower than doing a standard downshift.
    thats the problem im having now, and is part of why i feel uncomfortable doing it on the street. idk if something is wrong with my feet or if the ep pedal layout makes it hard to do. others don't seem to have a problem with it so ill just keep practicing and looking at pedal sets to help me get better at it.

  5. #50
    boogers! musashi1219's Avatar
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    mugsy, are you going to the BBQ? If you are and you bring your car I will show you how to do it assuming I go. Idk what kind of shoes you wear but the wider the better. I use piloti driving shoes in cars where the pedals are far apart. In cars with closer pedals like vettes I can use any shoe.

    Once you learn how to properly do it you will be amazed at how easy it is. Its easy to learn hard to master

  6. #51
    Autox4u.com MugsyTheGr8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musashi1219 View Post
    mugsy, are you going to the BBQ? If you are and you bring your car I will show you how to do it assuming I go. Idk what kind of shoes you wear but the wider the better. I use piloti driving shoes in cars where the pedals are far apart. In cars with closer pedals like vettes I can use any shoe.

    Once you learn how to properly do it you will be amazed at how easy it is. Its easy to learn hard to master
    i want to go, im supposed to be getting a ride with a fellow hatcher. i wear a size 10 but my feet aren't too wide. rite now i have a pair of addidas driving shoes.

  7. #52
    don't be hatin' benkieboy's Avatar
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    i tried doing it on the scca autocross event yesterday but none of the turns seemed to need downshifting. still i tried on one turn but i guess i slammed on the brakes too hard and lost my traction. (and failed to shift)

  8. #53
    boogers! musashi1219's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MugsyTheGr8 View Post
    i want to go, im supposed to be getting a ride with a fellow hatcher. i wear a size 10 but my feet aren't too wide. rite now i have a pair of addidas driving shoes.
    yeah those things are narrow. They are more like cart shoes. You see the shoes race car drivers use are narrow because the pedals are so close together. Look at the pedal placement in a ferrari and then look at the pedals in an impala. You can heel toe in any shoe and I am sure you have seen videos of people doing so, but the wider shoe just makes it a little easier
    Quote Originally Posted by benkieboy View Post
    i tried doing it on the scca autocross event yesterday but none of the turns seemed to need downshifting. still i tried on one turn but i guess i slammed on the brakes too hard and lost my traction. (and failed to shift)
    If you dont need to do a downshift to stay in the powerband then do not use one. It is wasting time/effort and leaves you to make a mis shift

    the second part of your reply... um that is exactly why you MASTER it in a straight line. I was following a vette down a front stretch and we enter turn one at about 110 and bleed off speed to about 90 and then jsut past the center of the turn you do a 4 3 downshift... the car in front of me did a small blurp on the throttle for his heel toe. so when he let off the clutch all the weight transferred to the front wheels and he spun. I was already in third and back on the power when his passenger door was next to my drivers mirror

    improper heel toe in a turn is the fastest way to get a panoramic view of the track!
    Last edited by musashi1219; 05-26-2008 at 02:18 PM. Reason: clarity

  9. #54
    Bonnie...real OG RedSiBaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musashi1219 View Post
    yeah those things are narrow. They are more like cart shoes. You see the shoes race car drivers use are narrow because the pedals are so close together. Look at the pedal placement in a ferrari and then look at the pedals in an impala. You can heel toe in any shoe and I am sure you have seen videos of people doing so, but the wider shoe just makes it a little easier


    If you dont need to do a downshift to stay in the powerband then do not use one. It is wasting time/effort and leaves you to make a mis shift

    the second part of your reply... um that is exactly why you MASTER it in a straight line. I was following a vette down a front stretch and we enter turn one at about 110 and bleed off speed to about 90 and then jsut past the center of the turn you do a 4 3 downshift... the car in front of me did a small blurp on the throttle for his heel toe. so when he let off the clutch all the weight transferred to the front wheels and he spun. I was already in third and back on the power when his passenger door was next to my drivers mirror

    improper heel toe in a turn is the fastest way to get a panoramic view of the track!
    ROFL...great point...more of this guys race craft coming through
    my ep is white...

    - We can talk numbers all you want, but the bullshit stops when the flag drops...

  10. #55
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    at first when i started... i twisted my hole leg so I am more able to get my foot on both pedels.... it made it easier later on with practice to heel-toe

  11. #56
    SC is hot EPSU3's Avatar
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    my dad taught me to do this while driving our company's dump and bucket trucks. also useful when stopped on a steep hill in a very large heavy truck with a crap clutch.

  12. #57
    Bonnie...real OG RedSiBaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EPSU3 View Post
    my dad taught me to do this while driving our company's dump and bucket trucks. also useful when stopped on a steep hill in a very large heavy truck with a crap clutch.
    werd to that!!
    my ep is white...

    - We can talk numbers all you want, but the bullshit stops when the flag drops...

  13. #58
    don't be hatin' benkieboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musashi1219 View Post
    yeah those things are narrow. They are more like cart shoes. You see the shoes race car drivers use are narrow because the pedals are so close together. Look at the pedal placement in a ferrari and then look at the pedals in an impala. You can heel toe in any shoe and I am sure you have seen videos of people doing so, but the wider shoe just makes it a little easier


    If you dont need to do a downshift to stay in the powerband then do not use one. It is wasting time/effort and leaves you to make a mis shift

    the second part of your reply... um that is exactly why you MASTER it in a straight line. I was following a vette down a front stretch and we enter turn one at about 110 and bleed off speed to about 90 and then jsut past the center of the turn you do a 4 3 downshift... the car in front of me did a small blurp on the throttle for his heel toe. so when he let off the clutch all the weight transferred to the front wheels and he spun. I was already in third and back on the power when his passenger door was next to my drivers mirror

    improper heel toe in a turn is the fastest way to get a panoramic view of the track!
    yeah im practicing it on a straight line. but the SCCA was a practice event so why not try it on a turn. im quite used to doing it on a straight line. if i get enough runs, i'll try it again next week. heck i wont learn if i wont try!

  14. #59
    Reborn !@#$%'s Avatar
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    To get the true effect of heel-toe, you have to really know exactly what rpm is at what speed in every gear.

    I heel toe like the japanese pros hitting the gas pedal with the actual heel. I place the brake lower on my foot near the middle so that I don't have to crank my leg as much. It seems easier to manipulate the amount of braking pressure when you've divided the movements to the top and bottom of the foot instead of left and right.

  15. #60
    ephatch member FCobra94's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by !@#$% View Post
    To get the true effect of heel-toe, you have to really know exactly what rpm is at what speed in every gear.
    Yeah, it's pretty difficult unless you put a lot of time/effort into it. Plus, it's hard to keep things consistant on the street. Peeps would obviously have an easier time at least keeping it consistant if they had a track to practice on.

    The easiest method I've found for rev-match/downshifting is going from 4th to 3rd @ right around 40 mph. It's a relatively slow vehicle and engine speed to try it at and theres less of a chance that you'll overshoot the RPM or bog the motor down if you take too long to pull it off.

    As you are downshifting, stab the gas pedal quickly, only for a split second, and release the clutch swiftly almost immediatly afterwards and that's usually all it takes. It gets a bit trickier with higher engine speeds and lower gears, which is why I recommend starting there.

    The thing to remember is to keep everything flowing in one fluid motion. If you start thinking about it and start doing the whole "Step 1....Step 2. What RPM's am I at?" thing in your head, it's already too late.

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