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  1. #61
    OG Triple OG PAPITUYO326's Avatar
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    Both are pretty neat setups. Meth Injection is more effective from a $/hp standpoint in the shortrun, but you do need to keep that tank filled. Tuning with an aftercooler is a good bit quicker than a methanol setup though and the overall setup is easy as pie. The only issue with the current crop of aftercoolers is that you CANNOT fit one on the EP3 JRSC manifold. You have to go to an RSX setup, which does require some homework. Not a huge deal, but something to think about. The best daily SC setup is a combo of both. I loved my SC'd K24/K20Z3. Just got too good of a deal on something else that I couldn't pass it up.

    I wouldn't be too concerned about overspinning the Eaton Blower. There is quite a bit of margin on these things. It do however agree it is preferable to use add ons such as meth injection and the aftercooler vs. increasing compressor revs to achieve more than 10psi.
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  2. #62
    Site Sponsor MadLorEP3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAPITUYO326 View Post
    The aftercooler is essentially a system comprised of two heat exchangers, a pump, a reservoir, and a coolant. One of the heat exchangers is mounted (welded) on a plate on the bottom of the RSX JRSC access plate. The other is mounted in front of the car much like an intercoolers heat exchanger. The hot JRSC air is cooled by the heat exchanger within the JRSC. The water flows constantly through the JRSC's heat exchanger, through the pump, and through the front mounted heat exchanger. This keeps the coolant nice and cool.

    JRSC Heat Exchanger


    Mounted on the JRSC


    Methanol Injection is just like what it sounds. You have a trunk mounted reservoir, a pump, some lines, and an orifice (nozzle). You fill the trunk's reservoir with some methanol/water mix and shoot it directly into the intake. This allows for cooler intake temperatures and gains with tuning. Usually 20-40whp and 10-20wtq on SC'd A2s and K24s. I believe a membere here has a tuned A3 on methanol injection hovering at just a littler over 270 to the wheels.

    Together they are good for about 50-70 hp on tuned A2s and K24 motors. Id expect close to 300-310 on a properly tuned A3 with good supporting mods.
    So will I still be able to use just regular high octane gas? I think so but just making sure.
    Who makes this meth injection kit and aftercooler or is it custom.
    What does installation entail, any fabrication involved? Any cutting of bumper of radiator support etc?
    what does your kit include,is it complete? whats the mileage on the sc?
    what kind of numbers can i expect on a properly tuned k24a2?
    how much you selling for?
    Quote Originally Posted by nmysiismyn View Post
    Ecclesiastes 1:9
    "What has been will be again,
    what has been done will be done again;
    there is nothing new under the sun."

    -King Solomon



  3. #63
    Site Sponsor MadLorEP3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 04EP3Hatch View Post
    your calculations are off a little bit. at 7700 rpms i am making 10.9psi even and i have a 6.3" crank pulley and a 3.8" blower pulley. if you decide to run any smaller of a pulley on the blower with a 6.3" crank pulley you risk running the chance of overspinning the blower and you do not want to do that as the clearance between the rotors spinning twice the engine speed is about .005" so there is barely any room for error. on a k24a2 the pulley setup i am running would net you some awesome numbers and be reliable. its all in the tune, yes the IAT's are going to skyrocket if you dont have a cooling system like an aftercooler or a methanol kit. id recommend running an aquamist kit over an aftercooler. it takes injector pulse width measurments, TPS and load measurments and injects with throttle, normal driving (if needed) and full throttle driving. they are very popular in the evo/sti community and a freind of mine has one, and it really works. comes with a gauge that shows exactly what the kit is doing and how much its injecting. if i had the money it would have been installed in my car. its around 500$, a lot cheaper than the aftercooler and a lot less complicated.
    so your saying its better to get this aquamist rather than an aftercooler and that the aquamist works with the methanol injection kit or is the aquamist an expensive version of the methanol injection kit
    Quote Originally Posted by nmysiismyn View Post
    Ecclesiastes 1:9
    "What has been will be again,
    what has been done will be done again;
    there is nothing new under the sun."

    -King Solomon



  4. #64
    Registered User 04EP3Hatch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madlorglk View Post
    so your saying its better to get this aquamist rather than an aftercooler and that the aquamist works with the methanol injection kit or is the aquamist an expensive version of the methanol injection kit
    http://www.aquamist.co.uk/cp/cp1.html

    it replaces the aftercooler all together. i would much rather run a quality kit like this over an after cooler, with an aftercooler, what happens if you get a core leak? all that water goes right into the engine while being pressurized from the blower. the aquamist kit has a fail safe in case of a failure of the pump or circuitry. i have the snow performance kit in mine and kpro is activating it like a nitrous kit, but if i had this kit, it would be functioning all the time, whenever the key is on. suppying the car with the meth as needed

  5. #65
    Site Sponsor MadLorEP3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 04EP3Hatch View Post
    http://www.aquamist.co.uk/cp/cp1.html

    it replaces the aftercooler all together. i would much rather run a quality kit like this over an after cooler, with an aftercooler, what happens if you get a core leak? all that water goes right into the engine while being pressurized from the blower. the aquamist kit has a fail safe in case of a failure of the pump or circuitry. i have the snow performance kit in mine and kpro is activating it like a nitrous kit, but if i had this kit, it would be functioning all the time, whenever the key is on. suppying the car with the meth as needed
    so basically all i would need is a jrsc and this aquamist kit
    and my sc will be cooled as well?
    Quote Originally Posted by nmysiismyn View Post
    Ecclesiastes 1:9
    "What has been will be again,
    what has been done will be done again;
    there is nothing new under the sun."

    -King Solomon



  6. #66
    OG Triple OG PAPITUYO326's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madlorglk View Post
    So will I still be able to use just regular high octane gas? I think so but just making sure.
    Who makes this meth injection kit and aftercooler or is it custom.
    What does installation entail, any fabrication involved? Any cutting of bumper of radiator support etc?
    what does your kit include,is it complete? whats the mileage on the sc?
    what kind of numbers can i expect on a properly tuned k24a2?
    how much you selling for?
    Regular Gas
    The aftercooler Kit is a part of a batch of custom units made by a few members on CRSX.
    No fabrication other than simply mounting things.

    I'll pm you info on the SC, this isn't the right avenue to sell stuff or talk details.

    You can expect upwards of 330 whp on a properly tuned K24A2 with an aftercooler and some sort of Meth Injection.

    Quote Originally Posted by 04EP3Hatch View Post
    http://www.aquamist.co.uk/cp/cp1.html

    it replaces the aftercooler all together. i would much rather run a quality kit like this over an after cooler, with an aftercooler, what happens if you get a core leak? all that water goes right into the engine while being pressurized from the blower. the aquamist kit has a fail safe in case of a failure of the pump or circuitry. i have the snow performance kit in mine and kpro is activating it like a nitrous kit, but if i had this kit, it would be functioning all the time, whenever the key is on. suppying the car with the meth as needed
    How would you get a core leak from a fully enclosed, pressure tested vessel? Is the metal going to disintegrate? Remember it is FULLY enclosed in the manifold, welded to the access plate and away from any loose parts. The only way it could feasibly fail or rupture is if the blower burst from centrifugals and impacted the core. Highly unlikely. Both systems have their benefits. Aquamist is a VERY nice system, but it still has the main drawback of meth injection which is the need for refills.

    Let's take a track day example:

    Assume relatively mild rate of 10 GPH (most use 13+ on serious K setups) during full throttle operation. Lets say you are running on a road course that allows 50% full throttle on a fast lap. You race for about 1.5 hours on said track day

    That's 7.5 gallons of meth/water mixture you have to run through. Even racing 45 mins is still over 3 gallons of meth. Sure you can refill during off time, but what about in between?

    The aftercooler meanwhile is always working. Not knocking Meth injection because I too have a kit, but I would aftercool before I would meth inject. Much less maintenance.
    Your most reliable source for K24 swap help and warrantied/papered K24 longblocks. Serving the K-community since 2004.

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    2003 Ep3 - K24A1/K20Z3 Hybrid - currently under the knife
    2001 S2000 - Stock and loving it
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  7. #67
    Registered User 04EP3Hatch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madlorglk View Post
    so basically all i would need is a jrsc and this aquamist kit
    and my sc will be cooled as well?
    yes the system would be cooled off as well as octane increased from the methanol. also injecting water/meth has a steamcleaning effect on engines, over time of use it slowly breaks down carbon deposits on the intake valve's and piston tops and leaves a clean engine.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAPITUYO326 View Post
    Regular Gas
    The aftercooler Kit is a part of a batch of custom units made by a few members on CRSX.
    No fabrication other than simply mounting things.

    I'll pm you info on the SC, this isn't the right avenue to sell stuff or talk details.

    You can expect upwards of 330 whp on a properly tuned K24A2 with an aftercooler and some sort of Meth Injection.



    How would you get a core leak from a fully enclosed, pressure tested vessel? Is the metal going to disintegrate? Remember it is FULLY enclosed in the manifold, welded to the access plate and away from any loose parts. The only way it could feasibly fail or rupture is if the blower burst from centrifugals and impacted the core. Highly unlikely. Both systems have their benefits. Aquamist is a VERY nice system, but it still has the main drawback of meth injection which is the need for refills.

    Let's take a track day example:

    Assume relatively mild rate of 10 GPH (most use 13+ on serious K setups) during full throttle operation. Lets say you are running on a road course that allows 50% full throttle on a fast lap. You race for about 1.5 hours on said track day

    That's 7.5 gallons of meth/water mixture you have to run through. Even racing 45 mins is still over 3 gallons of meth. Sure you can refill during off time, but what about in between?

    The aftercooler meanwhile is always working. Not knocking Meth injection because I too have a kit, but I would aftercool before I would meth inject. Much less maintenance.
    how do radiators or heater cores leak? they are pressure tested and sealed units. suppose there is an airpocket in the weld on the aluminum that creates a weak point and over time the pressure built up in the manifold vs pressure in the core causes a leak? its all very possible and the thought of it made me lean to methanol more-so than the aftercooler. and the aquamist kit is simpler, you dont need to add a second condensor for the fluid, the pump in the fender well, a resevoir where ever there's room, then run all the lines. both kits have advantages and disadvanteges. you can make more power on the aquamist kit, as it doesnt impeed flow within the manifold, and the fact it cools the IAT's way down, and the methanol increases octane for increased timing and leaner AFR's. my IAT's with the meth kit activated on only a 10gph nozzle where mid 70's. now granted when my setup gets more advanced, as will my jetting, i will need to increase to about 14gph

  8. #68
    Site Sponsor MadLorEP3's Avatar
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    Damn this is some technical shit thats is way above my big head with small brain.

    So basically the jrsc needs to be cooled somehow. You can either cool it with:
    1) an aftercooler kit + the methanol/water injection kit

    OR

    2) an aquamist kit which IS a type of methanol/water injection kit


    what does GPH stand for? And where do you buy this water/methanol mixture?
    Last edited by MadLorEP3; 01-08-2011 at 12:47 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by nmysiismyn View Post
    Ecclesiastes 1:9
    "What has been will be again,
    what has been done will be done again;
    there is nothing new under the sun."

    -King Solomon



  9. #69
    Site Sponsor MadLorEP3's Avatar
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    finally made it over to the aquamist site

    and it seems that there will be less work involved if i get this kit since its plug and play and comes with everything I need
    pretty cheap as well, only $650 for the hsf3

    now just gotta find jrsc
    Last edited by MadLorEP3; 01-08-2011 at 12:51 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by nmysiismyn View Post
    Ecclesiastes 1:9
    "What has been will be again,
    what has been done will be done again;
    there is nothing new under the sun."

    -King Solomon



  10. #70
    OG Triple OG PAPITUYO326's Avatar
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    Radiators and Heater cores are exposed to the elements, leading to loads and impacts. All those bent fins you see in daily driven cores are due to outside effects. Even if you had a faulty weld, there is NO LOAD on the aftercooler within the manifold. The pressure in the manifold will not cause the core to buckle or fail. We are talking about less than a 14psi delta between the manifold and the core. The only real load you might see is G loads on the brackets from heavy acceleration. I can't speak for all cores, but the ones commissioned by JustinC and Erik Loza are of great workmanship. I've personally used one and bought another for a friend.

    I am not knocking meth, but I don't like to see fear mongering on the integrity of the cores.
    Your most reliable source for K24 swap help and warrantied/papered K24 longblocks. Serving the K-community since 2004.

    The Evolution:
    2003 Ep3 - K24A1/K20Z3 Hybrid - currently under the knife
    2001 S2000 - Stock and loving it
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  11. #71
    OG Triple OG PAPITUYO326's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madlorglk View Post
    Damn this is some technical shit thats is way above my big head with small brain.

    So basically the jrsc needs to be cooled somehow. You can either cool it with:
    1) an aftercooler kit + the methanol/water injection kit
    2) an aquamist kit which IS a type of methanol/water injection kit
    what does GPH stand for? And where do you buy this water/methanol mixture?
    There are more options than what myself and 04ep3hatch are advocating. AIS, Snow Performance, Cooling Mist, and Aquamist are all reputable Meth kits. Aquamist has a nice progressive controller which allows for modulation of the flow by integrating it with sensors from the native car. It's an option that most other kits do no offer. Usually you have it working like Nitrous, it's either flowing a constant rate or its not. The threshold for on operation is usually set very close to full throttle to help preserve injection for needed situations.

    There aren't too many aftercooling options. A couple of guys on CRSX made their own. Joe at Prototype racing made a couple for some race teams a few years back, but those are long gone. You'll still see the Loza/JustinC cores pop up from now and then but they require an RSX JRSC. The RSX JRSC has a better flowing manifold, but it's fitment within the EP engine bay is not as nice as the native EP kit.

    GPH is Gallons per Hour. You can buy methanol at local shops and mix it with water at your convenience.

    You seem pretty green to the SC game. Check out clubrsx's SC section and read their stickies. Lot's of good info on everything from tuning, coolers, and alcohol injection.
    Last edited by PAPITUYO326; 01-08-2011 at 01:25 AM.
    Your most reliable source for K24 swap help and warrantied/papered K24 longblocks. Serving the K-community since 2004.

    The Evolution:
    2003 Ep3 - K24A1/K20Z3 Hybrid - currently under the knife
    2001 S2000 - Stock and loving it
    1987 Buick T-Type WE4 - The BEAST

  12. #72
    GDM Lights Installed Draw7Seven's Avatar
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    To dumb down the conversation, I was just going to confirm (and I didn't read pages 2-4) that the Injen CAI SP-1576 is a 3" piping specific to the EP3 engine bay. I believe even Fujita's CAI is 3", AEM just never updated their product... Injen originally made a "1st gen" CAI for the EP3 that had smaller piping before coming up with a better one.
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  13. #73
    Site Sponsor MadLorEP3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAPITUYO326 View Post
    There are more options than what myself and 04ep3hatch are advocating. AIS, Snow Performance, Cooling Mist, and Aquamist are all reputable Meth kits. Aquamist has a nice progressive controller which allows for modulation of the flow by integrating it with sensors from the native car. It's an option that most other kits do no offer. Usually you have it working like Nitrous, it's either flowing a constant rate or its not. The threshold for on operation is usually set very close to full throttle to help preserve injection for needed situations.

    There aren't too many aftercooling options. A couple of guys on CRSX made their own. Joe at Prototype racing made a couple for some race teams a few years back, but those are long gone. You'll still see the Loza/JustinC cores pop up from now and then but they require an RSX JRSC. The RSX JRSC has a better flowing manifold, but it's fitment within the EP engine bay is not as nice as the native EP kit.

    GPH is Gallons per Hour. You can buy methanol at local shops and mix it with water at your convenience.

    You seem pretty green to the SC game. Check out clubrsx's SC section and read their stickies. Lot's of good info on everything from tuning, coolers, and alcohol injection.
    than you sir
    I appreciate the clarification
    by the way, in your old set up, where you running both an aftercooler and a water/meth kit?
    Quote Originally Posted by nmysiismyn View Post
    Ecclesiastes 1:9
    "What has been will be again,
    what has been done will be done again;
    there is nothing new under the sun."

    -King Solomon



  14. #74
    Registered User 04EP3Hatch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAPITUYO326 View Post
    Radiators and Heater cores are exposed to the elements, leading to loads and impacts. All those bent fins you see in daily driven cores are due to outside effects. Even if you had a faulty weld, there is NO LOAD on the aftercooler within the manifold. The pressure in the manifold will not cause the core to buckle or fail. We are talking about less than a 14psi delta between the manifold and the core. The only real load you might see is G loads on the brackets from heavy acceleration. I can't speak for all cores, but the ones commissioned by JustinC and Erik Loza are of great workmanship. I've personally used one and bought another for a friend.

    I am not knocking meth, but I don't like to see fear mongering on the integrity of the cores.
    i know the odd's against one failing are highly unlikely its just something that would always be on my mind though, i have heard great things about them from the guys on CRSX, jmercado makes them for the CT and the JRSC right?

  15. #75
    OG Triple OG PAPITUYO326's Avatar
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    Yep he makes some for both the JRSC and the CT units.
    Your most reliable source for K24 swap help and warrantied/papered K24 longblocks. Serving the K-community since 2004.

    The Evolution:
    2003 Ep3 - K24A1/K20Z3 Hybrid - currently under the knife
    2001 S2000 - Stock and loving it
    1987 Buick T-Type WE4 - The BEAST

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