how to: heel toe downshifting

[MugsyTheGr8]

im sure alot of you guys are pros at it, but im still a newb at it and im sure some others are too.

here's an article i found on Edmunds that really helped me out. Click here

[RedSiBaron]

good post, this is a good habit to get into, and the purpose of this is to rev match...

i do this automatically now, and i also double clutch

which means when you put in the clutch on downshifts you shift to neutral and let the clutch out and rev match and then engage the clutch again to shift down, and then let out the clutch to finish your shift...

good habit...i had to learn it on my old car cuz the syncros were gone 1st through 3rd and if i didnt double clutch and rev match it wouldnt downshift...

[player757]

i revmatch + double clutch every shift every day i blew up my 3rd gear syncro is shot. plus it add just a lil more to driving. keeps me happy with the car

[RHCP0801]

seems confusing to me but this is my first stick shift daily driver and have only been driving it since monday

[RedSiBaron]

seems confusing to me but this is my first stick shift daily driver and have only been driving it since monday

haha my best advice is before all this start by slowing down shifts and timing them, dont worry about rev matching or double clutching your downshifts...start by adding the rev matching, its just a tiny blip up about 1k rpms, and then when you get that down add double clutching

...slamming through gears is sloppy...

[RHCP0801]

so when slowing down to turn rev it up say from 2k to 3k and than downshift?

[RedSiBaron]

so when slowing down to turn rev it up say from 2k to 3k and than downshift?

you want it to be a fluid motion, matching the revs helps the transmission get into gear...so ease it in nice when your revs hit the sweet spot...the higher the rpms the more "notchy" rev matching is...

ive gotten to the point i can rev match and slide the gears in without the clutch, I HIGHLY SUGGEST that you DO NOT DO THAT...its taken 7 years of rev matching and my clutch pedal linkage breaking at a weld on my old car to learn this (i had to drive the car home 50 miles without the clutch, learned a lot that day) and i dont really do it except when im at really low revs and like once every few months......

[L337Ep3]

Alright, I've gotten pretty good at heel toeing and do it most of the time I downshift.

But can someone please clarify double clutching for me. What is the point of taking your foot off the clutch when you go into neutral, why don't you just keep the clutch pedal depressed and rev match it? eh someone please clarify.

[RHCP0801]

hmm ill try it tomorrow i guess like around my house so i dont look stupid when i mess up lol

[RedSiBaron]

Alright, I've gotten pretty good at heel toeing and do it most of the time I downshift.

But can someone please clarify double clutching for me. What is the point of taking your foot off the clutch when you go into neutral, why don't you just keep the clutch pedal depressed and rev match it? eh someone please clarify.

its a technique that takes load off the syncros...its REQUIRED in an unsynchronized transmission...like in a race gearbox...

it assists in matching rotational speed of the input shaft being driven off of the engine to the speed of the gear you are selecting which would be directly connected to the wheels through the axles

does that help?



on that note my father was telling me back in the day that in his first race with his formula ford he only revved matched and didnt double clutch and by the end of the race the transmission was frozen and he couldnt get it into gear...had to rebuild it with all new internals...said he never made that stupid mistake again haha

[Karma]

so, after you "blip" the throttle and are in the next lower gear, you just release the clutch?

i've tried heel-n-toe before, but it's a little sloppy and slow.

[MugsyTheGr8]

i have to find a parking lot or something where i can get better. i dont feel safe doing it on the street. musashi was talking about a cheater plate or something thats, supposed to make heel toe downshifting easier.

[RedSiBaron]

so, after you "blip" the throttle and are in the next lower gear, you just release the clutch?

i've tried heel-n-toe before, but it's a little sloppy and slow.

it takes a lot of practice man youll get it, you shift just like normal, but while you are sliding through neutral and into the lower gear just give that gas a "blip"...one of the trickiest parts is not changing the brake position when you blip the throttle, its real easy to push harder or let off the brakes

i have to find a parking lot or something where i can get better. i dont feel safe doing it on the street. musashi was talking about a cheater plate or something thats, supposed to make heel toe downshifting easier.

yah its cuz the stock pedals on the ep are just barely too far apart, so you have to roll your foot more than use your heel...if that center console tunnel wasnt in the way you could just rotate your foot sideways and use your heel on the gas, i was able to do that quick as hell on my 86si, cuz those were too far apart that i couldnt roll my foot onto the gas from the brake easily...on the ep, you physically cant put your foot sideways, well, unless you have tiny feet...

[benkieboy]

i tried doing it today. it's a bit hard! i find it hard to get out of the brakes without getting out of the gas too.

ok here's what i understand

3rd gear on 2000 rpm
then push clutch, brakes and gas ("blip" gas to get to 3000 rpm)
shift to 2nd gear
release clutch and at the same time floor the gas

my question is how do i get off the brakes without getting off the gas too? i find it hard to release the brakes without releasing the gas too.

or do i heel-toe then foot off (gas and brakes) then floor the gas?

[MugsyTheGr8]

i tried doing it today. it's a bit hard! i find it hard to get out of the brakes without getting out of the gas too.

ok here's what i understand

3rd gear on 2000 rpm
then push clutch, brakes and gas ("blip" gas to get to 3000 rpm)
shift to 2nd gear
release clutch and at the same time floor the gas

my question is how do i get off the brakes without getting off the gas too? i find it hard to release the brakes without releasing the gas too.

or do i heel-toe then foot off (gas and brakes) then floor the gas?

your not supposed to let off the brakes. the point of heel toe is to constantly apply the brakes while blipping the throttle to revmatch for the lower gear.