ABS delete?

[v1c10us]

so a tire skidding down the road, will have more stopping power than an abs equiped tire that keeps its contact patch on the ground the whole time?

Well, the tires never leave the ground so i dont understand how the contact patch is ever leaving the ground.
but;
A sliding tire is resisting the car more than a rolling one. So to answer your question, yes it will.
Antilock brakes lock up intermittently to stop the car, they let go of the brakes intermittently so that if you are turning the tire will turn instead of continuing to slide straight. In wet conditions a sliding tire endures very little friction, so attempting to slow it without sliding it is more effective.
I'm still failing to see where all of the dispute is in this.
If reducing braking pressure to allow the tires to keep rolling is good for braking, next time you need to stop you should just not press the brakes.

[!@#$%]

Well, the tires never leave the ground so i dont understand how the contact patch is ever leaving the ground.
but;
A sliding tire is resisting the car more than a rolling one. So to answer your question, yes it will.
Antilock brakes lock up intermittently to stop the car, they let go of the brakes intermittently so that if you are turning the tire will turn instead of continuing to slide straight. In wet conditions a sliding tire endures very little friction, so attempting to slow it without sliding it is more effective.
I'm still failing to see where all of the dispute is in this.
If reducing braking pressure to allow the tires to keep rolling is good for braking, next time you need to stop you should just not press the brakes.

The problem is that everyday cars don't drive around with circuit slicks. The all season cheapo tires on almost every car won't grip at all when locked up.

When normal tires heat up they don't get sticky. They get greasy.

[musashi1219]

you are arguing over the details.
1st off, abs has zero affect on brake bias, and to say that ABS prevents all of the weight to go to the front wheels is also saying that they arent working.
In order for your tires to not slide less pressure must be applied to them, and since you cant do that via removing momentum from the car, you have to do it by relieving brake pressure which means there are less things at work trying to slow down the car.

I am in no way trying to disprove what you are saying about ABS in certain situations but its irrefutable that locking up your tires on a road lacking all the shit that can fuck it up that you keep dwelling on will stop the car sooner.
I'm done with this thread and if you want to continue harping on the exact same shit you've said in the last 3 posts be my guest, but I'm tired of hearing you say the same thing.

Well if you would wake up instead of being blinded by some shit an old man once told you....
Everything I said has a valid point lets go back to basics

what stops a car?
brakes and tires. Clamping force has nothing to do (within reason) of stopping the car. It is all about how the tire and the road surface react with one another. In most cases most tires are going to glaze over when they are skidded for a longer than normal time. This creates less stopping power and will give you a longer distance. Full wheel lock up at 35 mph yeah it might stop a few feet shorter but when you take it up to 45 and 50 you have a totally different story

so a tire skidding down the road, will have more stopping power than an abs equiped tire that keeps its contact patch on the ground the whole time?

it is not about the contact patch it is about how the tires material acts when heated up. The tire never leaves the ground.

I was not talking about brake bias at all. I was talking about the natural movement of a car when you try to brake to hard. THe nose of the car digs towards the ground that would tell any idiot that all of the weight is at the front of the car. Little weight residing over the rear wheels means that while the brakes are clamping on the rotors the tires have little weight on them and are not helping slow the car down.


This is not the first time you have been in an argument on a subject that you are not equipped to handle. Please lose that attitude and learn something. I hate when this shit happens because all it does is get people pissed off and people have to sift through the bickering to get real information.

[fdasfd]

Just trying to get a clarification on what happens in a skid with non-abs,

with abs, your tires are actually using static/rolling friction to stop as there is no skid.

without abs, in a skid, your tires are using sliding friction, where there is less friction available to stop with.

isn't that another valid argument for the shorter stopping distance with Abs and slamming the brakes?

many other factors included, i know, but a general argument about different types of friction no less.

[4angrybadgers]

Just trying to get a clarification on what happens in a skid with non-abs,

with abs, your tires are actually using static/rolling friction to stop as there is no skid.

without abs, in a skid, your tires are using sliding friction, where there is less friction available to stop with.

isn't that another valid argument for the shorter stopping distance with Abs and slamming the brakes?

many other factors included, i know, but a general argument about different types of friction no less.

You are correct.

Manually pumping the brakes will keep the tires from locking up, but the ABS will do it multiple times per second - MUCH faster than any human. Hence why it stops a car quicker.

[k20si02]

You are correct.

Manually pumping the brakes will keep the tires from locking up, but the ABS will do it multiple times per second - MUCH faster than any human. Hence why it stops a car quicker.

thats what i thought too. and if someone is pumping the brakes with abs they aren't letting the abs do its job

[v1c10us]

Well if you would wake up instead of being blinded by some shit an old man once told you....
Everything I said has a valid point lets go back to basics

what stops a car?
brakes and tires. Clamping force has nothing to do (within reason) of stopping the car. It is all about how the tire and the road surface react with one another. In most cases most tires are going to glaze over when they are skidded for a longer than normal time. This creates less stopping power and will give you a longer distance. Full wheel lock up at 35 mph yeah it might stop a few feet shorter but when you take it up to 45 and 50 you have a totally different story


it is not about the contact patch it is about how the tires material acts when heated up. The tire never leaves the ground.

I was not talking about brake bias at all. I was talking about the natural movement of a car when you try to brake to hard. THe nose of the car digs towards the ground that would tell any idiot that all of the weight is at the front of the car. Little weight residing over the rear wheels means that while the brakes are clamping on the rotors the tires have little weight on them and are not helping slow the car down.


This is not the first time you have been in an argument on a subject that you are not equipped to handle. Please lose that attitude and learn something. I hate when this shit happens because all it does is get people pissed off and people have to sift through the bickering to get real information.

Now you're changing your story.
The weight transfer and nose dive during braking is something that WILL happen if you are hard on the brakes. According to your last post not having abs somehow increases the amount of brake dive.
So 1st, if ABS decreases brake dive, they're obviously not working very well
2nd, if not having abs increases brake dive, thats proof that there is more resistance in the tires, or else there would be less brake dive over ABS.

I'm sorry but clamping force has everything to do with it. If there is no force applied to the rotors there is no resistance and the tires will continue to roll.
Now excuse me, but how about you forget some shit an old man once told you. Any modern tire that is "glazing over" on you is clearly in your imagination.
The only component in tires that could do anything like this is the Silica, but with modern compounds even in all weather tires this isn't going to happen, you're gonna get flat spots, not glazed slippy spots.

I believe you were mistakenly talking about abrasion and graining patterns on tires. This occurs when tires are overworked while still cold, such as in suddenly locking up the brakes.
The rubber develops an array of parallel ridges over time from acceleration and cornering, then when the tire is cold and you slam on the brakes these ridges fold over creating what i suppose someone could call a smooth "glaze"
Yes this does create a lack of traction but due to the thinness of these ridges they quickly heat up its no longer a problem, especially if only one part of the tire was skidding and building up friction inducing heat.
I'm sorry but you're just plain wrong. This isnt about theory's or what someone told you its about the physical nature of the systems at work. =\
<--- I'm really really done this time, promise. I'll be blocking this page from myself in noscript for firefox.

[v1c10us]

You are correct.

Manually pumping the brakes will keep the tires from locking up, but the ABS will do it multiple times per second - MUCH faster than any human. Hence why it stops a car quicker.

last thing.
Hence why it stops a car quicker- than manually pumping the brakes.

[skep18]

Damn, thanks. I hope your wrong too! Why would you even wish that on my poor EP? wish all the bad luck you want on me, but leave my car out of it!

Haha, sorry. I didn't mean to wish bad luck. I hope you ABS deleting goes as well as you hope! But curious, can't you retrain yourself to just slam the brakes and let the car do the pumping?

[skep18]

well lets brake it down. A (allows) B (Braking) and S (steering)

I guess I'm stupid or something, so just humor me, but doesn't ABS stand for Anti-lock Braking System? Again, I'm probably wrong, but just wanna know.

[4angrybadgers]

last thing.
Hence why it stops a car quicker- than manually pumping the brakes.

Huh? That's exactly what I said... ABS will stop a car faster than just slamming on the brakes or pumping them yourself (except for a very tiny set of circumstances, probably already mentioned before).

[Drew1d]

I think if you take a brake distribution block (rectangle metal block with all the lines in it.) from an old integra, then you can delete the ABS controller. Then Again, I'm sure thats hooked up to something else. (ECU?) So I don't know if it would affect anything else. It probably throws a code for you to fail inspection.

I guess that also means you could remove the speed sensors and wires from the wheel. Not that I know that's possible or anything.

[v1c10us]

Huh? That's exactly what I said... ABS will stop a car faster than just slamming on the brakes or pumping them yourself (except for a very tiny set of circumstances, probably already mentioned before).

its only in manually pumping the brakes versus electronic pumping that the abs helps you with the exception of odd circumstances such as rain and very dusty roads.
It boils down to this, If the rolling resistance including the brakes is greater than the resistance of the sliding tire then ABS will help you.
But since this is only true when there is something interfering with the tires contact with the ground such as fine dust or gravel or wetness or ice or some very very very cracked up roads with little contact to the wheel to begin with, for the most part the abs increases braking distance in a straight line.

[AzNCrAzYcOoLeR]

As far as I learned,

ABS does not decrease stopping distance, but it does allows the car to stop strait vs no ABS

[adrian1281]

Jesus Christ this thread is a disaster.

Although I am far from being a braking expert, I teach Evasive and Defensive Driving Courses for Senior Executives, Executive Protection drivers, etc. I will therefore put my .02 in...

The fastest way to stop a car is to brake at the limit of the tires, if you pass this limit, the tires will lock up and you'll start sliding.

ABS works by decreasing line pressure to the tire that locked up allowing it to roll. Once it senses this, it allows the line pressure back to the caliper at whatever force you're applying.

If the tire locked up, ABS released pressure, yet your foot is still to the ground, guess what, the tire is gonna lock up again when the ABS sends the line pressure to the caliper again. ABS does this many times a second, faster than what 99.9% of people can possibly do.

Whether or not ABS is a good thing depends on how good of a driver you are and what the goals for the car are. But I will say this, a sliding car will never stop faster than a car who's driver is pumping the brakes at a rapid rate.

This whole talk about sliding tires melting and creating friction is all BS.

To the OP, if your car has ABS and you are pumping your brakes then you are doing it wrong.

You guys might want to do a little reading on ABS and how it works before you start pulling your ABS fuses...