can I mount my amps upside down?

[dj addicted]

here is the end all answers...

Do it!!! If your shit blows up, maybe it wasn't the best idea

Do it!!! If your shit doesn't blow up, maybe it was a good idea.

There problem solved.

[Chad]

here is the end all answers...

Do it!!! If your shit blows up, maybe it wasn't the best idea

Do it!!! If your shit doesn't blow up, maybe it was a good idea.

There problem solved.

My Kinda Guy

On a more serious note, it depends on the heatsink design of the amplifier and how things are laid out. For example a JL has heatsinks on one side, designed to be mounted ass down, mounted ass up the transistors still face the same direction and convection currents are STILL HINDERED although upside down MAY BE BETTER in that instance.

Some amps have the heatsinks on either side with fins that run horizontal, ideally (although the amp makers don't tell you this) you want them mounted on their END because the air will flow over the entire heatsink area with little to no turbulence as if they were mounted "properly" I'm sure we have all seen competition cars mounted this way and never wondered why.

Until we know the whole story we cannot pass judgment.

As for utilizing the thermal protection, bad idea, it's there for PROTECTION not as a feature, if you are consistently thermalling out your amp you have an install issue or did not bring enough beer to the party.

Chad

[v1c10us]

lets pretend there is no breeze and you have equal air pressure on the inside and the outside of an amp.
You have a source creating heat with a heatsink on top to dissipate it, the air around the heatsink will heat up via convection and radiation. This air will expand and exit the amp through the most upperly exit sucking cool air in through the bottommost exit.
This will occur regaurdless of the direction the amp is.
However, it will be much more efficient if the hot air can both rise and expand instead of just expand. or you can simply put an exhaust fan on the damn thing.

[Chad]

It's most efficient when the convection currents can be induced over the entire area of the heatsink.

[MR.Pizza]

Maybe you missed my comment. The amp was in a jeep with no shade from the sun at over 100 degrees. the internal temp of the space was well over 120 degrees even with the fans a blowing( they are on a thermostat and relay that turns on any time the chamber gets above 90 degrees. Black heatsink+direct sunlight+over 100 degrees=hot ass amp no matter what you do. why do you think on a very hot day if you touch your black car its hot as hell? My point in that statement is that there is thermal protection to prevent damage. I dont really care anymore about convincing someone that is dead set against doing it, because they have never tried and always followed what the manufacturer recomends for everything. thank god I have a logical mind and can think for myself on amp placement and what is acceptable. Because without people who can think for themselves there would be no good ideas or space saving ideas like the first person was asking about. God forbid yes there is additonal risk of damage but when you take in the minimal risk an additional 1% or so its well worth it to save some space, its not like saying if you mount it upside down it will not work or its going to die within x amount of days. I bet your one of the people who say you cant mount an amp to the speaker box too.

Make your own choice about how you want to install your stuff if you know the risks involved and choose too ignore them, but recommending them to others here without first explaining the risk is bad advise. As far as the assumption of 1% risk I hardly believe that to be an accurate number. I say that any amp that exceeded it's thermal limit regularly would be at high risk for failure quite quickly. Not saying this will be the case in the OP situation but if he's asking the question he should at least know what to consider.

[RON]

Maybe you missed my comment. The amp was in a jeep with no shade from the sun at over 100 degrees. the internal temp of the space was well over 120 degrees even with the fans a blowing( they are on a thermostat and relay that turns on any time the chamber gets above 90 degrees. Black heatsink+direct sunlight+over 100 degrees=hot ass amp no matter what you do. why do you think on a very hot day if you touch your black car its hot as hell? My point in that statement is that there is thermal protection to prevent damage. I dont really care anymore about convincing someone that is dead set against doing it, because they have never tried and always followed what the manufacturer recomends for everything. thank god I have a logical mind and can think for myself on amp placement and what is acceptable. Because without people who can think for themselves there would be no good ideas or space saving ideas like the first person was asking about. God forbid yes there is additonal risk of damage but when you take in the minimal risk an additional 1% or so its well worth it to save some space, its not like saying if you mount it upside down it will not work or its going to die within x amount of days. I bet your one of the people who say you cant mount an amp to the speaker box too.

The problem here is that you are making suggestions and you are not painting the whole picture. We have some experts in the audio field that roam this board. So they are all about FACT! Not generalizations.

[v1c10us]

It's most efficient when the convection currents can be induced over the entire area of the heatsink.

Indeed, this is why convection ovens cook so much faster than radiation ovens, it works in both directions, so if you have an amp that has a tendency to go into thermal protect your best bet is you mount it face up so you can allow the pressure differentials to create some convection currents, as well as the fact that heat rises.
If that still isn't working cut a 20mm hole in your amp and put a 20mm fan there to make your own convection currents.
If you are worried about dust build up make it an exhaust fan, if you dont give a fuck make it an intake fan.
I've worked on overclocking computers for several years and have managed to squeeze 4.8 ghz out of a 2.2 ghz processor using liquid cooling and I know what happens to electronics when it gets hot; it stops working, or in my case it melts your motherboard.
the amount of heat amps put out compared to the amount of cooling they recieve puts this as a fairly high concern in my mind.

edit: oh yeah and about mounting an amp to a speaker box, dont do it.
Its bad enough to begin with but when you combine that with high heat the massive vibration has a good chance to fuck stuff up. It's less of a problem with modern amps because most of them seem to be fairly well crafted with good solder joints etc etc, but dont risk it, just hide the thing, it'll look better and be safe for the amp.

[Chad]

Indeed, this is why convection ovens cook so much faster than radiation ovens, it works in both directions, so if you have an amp that has a tendency to go into thermal protect your best bet is you mount it face up so you can allow the pressure differentials to create some convection currents, as well as the fact that heat rises.

Again, we are making a VERY broad assessment of the amplifier in question as to it's heatsink geometry, until we know what amplifier then we are shot.

Edit DUUUHHH, re-read the first post, off to ampguts now to check it out.

[Chad]

http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/Alpine_MRV-F545/

The Finals are mounted to a die that is in turn mounted to the chassis, the chassis has fans that bring air around and thru the cooling fins.

If you aren't running it like a raped ape I'd say it's fine to mount it inverted.

Fans ain't gonna do squat till we find out the direction and amount of airflow of the internal fans. Contrary to some computer folks push/pull CAN be a bad thing.

Let's see how Nashville reacts to that statement, it could be a fun topic :D

[james04si]

We have some experts in the audio field that roam this board. So they are all about FACT! Not generalizations.

and who here would you be referring to? and what makes them an expert? must you be an installer to be considered expert? at that point do you consider a best buy installer to be expert? do you require certification on the field? Or does it just boil down to the people who talk the most on this specific forum. I for one feel I am adept at what I do. I have been a SPL competitor and have since moved over to the good side with SQ though only one regional competition. I did place either first or second at any local USAC competition in the 301-600 watt class. I did place 3rd at the USAC regional finals a few years ago in that same class. I did receive a letter inviting me to finals on 2 seperate occasions (the years I did compete 01-02) but did not go because I would not have placed in the top 4 or 5 which to me would have been a waste of money to enter. I may not be an expert but I think you should not doubt that I am the run of the mill prick that think he know something when I do in fact know a thing or 2.

[Chad]

and who here would you be referring to? and what makes them an expert? must you be an installer to be considered expert? at that point do you consider a best buy installer to be expert? do you require certification on the field? Or does it just boil down to the people who talk the most on this specific forum. I for one feel I am adept at what I do. I have been a SPL competitor and have since moved over to the good side with SQ though only one regional competition. I did place either first or second at any local USAC competition in the 301-600 watt class. I did place 3rd at the USAC regional finals a few years ago in that same class. I did receive a letter inviting me to finals on 2 seperate occasions (the years I did compete 01-02) but did not go because I would not have placed in the top 4 or 5 which to me would have been a waste of money to enter. I may not be an expert but I think you should not doubt that I am the run of the mill prick that think he know something when I do in fact know a thing or 2.

No offense, but winning a competition or two does not make you an expert in thermodynamics.

I design, build, and implement audio gear to last the long haul, I do not farm out to the Chinese,I build it right here, and it works, nearly forever 24/7/365 including public safety applications. I have designed, manufactured, and sold out gear designs for the professional audio industry.

I design and build audio systems for recording studios, concert venues, lecture halls and simple classrooms, prior I have 10 years touring experience as a FOH, monitor, and systems engineer, A1.

As of now I am chief engineer for 12 recording studios, 5 lecture halls, and 63 classrooms at a Big 10 university.

You ain't gonna slide nothing past me.

I just happen to drive an EP3

[v1c10us]

They're likely 20mm fans, due to noise constraints they most likely put out no more than 10CFM per fan.
How many fans are in it?
I saw 2 from the picture on ampguts, I think they were on the top underneath the silver plate, most likely intake fans.
What I would do is mount a higher end 20mm or if you could fit it, a 40mm fan on the the side of the amp that creates the most heat mounted as exhaust fans to draw cool air in the top and blow it by the hot components and then exhaust out the side.
If the pre exsisting fans are exhaust fans I would do the same thing but mount the fan as an intake fan.

[Chad]

They're likely 20mm fans, due to noise constraints they most likely put out no more than 10CFM per fan.

For cooling a chunk of Al that big for non-SPL issues, that works

How many fans are in it?

It appears two....

I saw 2 from the picture on ampguts, I think they were on the top, most likely intake fans.

We don't know which way they are blowing but again that does not make a difference at this point.

What I would do is mount a higher end 20mm or if you could fit it,

Good call

a 40mm fan on the the side of the amp that creates the most heat mounted as exhaust fans to draw cool air in the top and blow it by the hot components and then exhaust out the side.

See there's the computer guy coming out. The dies mount to an heatsink that has the most amount of area UNDER the beauty area, the internal fans dissipate cool air over these fins, in (or out) the top out (or in) the bottom circumference. WE DON"T KNOW WHICH WAY THEY BLOW YET.

If the pre existing fans are exhaust fans I would do the same thing but mount the fan as an intake fan.

See, here's the deal, 20+20MM does not at all equal 40MM, never will. Intake/exhaust only causes flow issues in the fact that it can over-run the internal fans causing the to spin faster and burn up (yes it does happen, they GOTTA have resistance) and IF the airflow is matches and IF the designer had his chops up, too much airflow causes hot pockets and can cause hot spots. IT happens inside computers too, you should try some thermal imaging sometime with a computer running ballz out and different fan configs. On the other side, too little push and not enough pull is just that, an amp in a room that is building heat. Just because you have guzinta and cumzata does not mean it's doing an efficient job of cooling.

I still firmly believe that amp can be mounted upside-down with no issues.

[MR.Pizza]

yup no issues. amps dont care what orientation they are in just so long as the heatsinks are not covered or fans blocked.

NUff ssaid

[Chad]

NUff ssaid

Agreed, with the exception of extreme situations, and that's splittin' hairs