what is under axle exactly? if it is what I'm thinking it is, won't the pipe be scraping a lot?Originally Posted by moso
the progress is not really adjustable from the endlink just from the mount and i dont consider that adjustable unless its from the endlinks and under axle is when it goes under the rear sway bar under the tie bar and ya it might scrape a lot it matters on the persons driving and i think the ctr front sway is thicker if im not mistaking
i was under the impression that the adjustable progress had 2 different holes on each side for endlinks to make it tighter or looser
no i wish but it doesnt =/ i mean for the price u pay for it its good cuz u even get the tie bar which i think looks awesome with some junk2 lca like my set upbut for the front im still thinking on what sway to get maybe progress or ctr i dunno well c once im done with the front end of my car =]
the newer 24mm bar is.
really? if only i knew its ok dis ones not datbad
That's as close to a solid axle as you can get with an independent suspension.ASR 32mm swaybar, bye bye understeer.
im thinking of getting the cusco 25mm any thoughts on that one?? ,, looking for lapping purpose and spirited daily driving.
did you happen to read through this thread at all?
There are many threads devoted to car handling. And, there are just as many different opinions.
Let's start with, there is a difference between handling and steering. I always thought (perhaps syntax is wrong) handling is the grip the car has to the road, and steering determines whether the front or rear break loose first. (Or which keeps it's hold, if you're a glass half full type of person)
For maximum handling, stiffer springs( to keep the car more level) + grippy tires (Possibly wider) + lower center of gravity will keep the cars hold on the ground. (This is on clean, dry, level pavement.)
Steeringwise, the ratio of roll on the front to back will determine which grip gives up first. This is changed by the Spring rate and sway bars. Imagine this if you will,
-As you enter a LEFT turn, the FRONT of the car (which has most of the weight and softest springs) rolls, lifting the LEFT hand side into the air and unevenly putting weight on the RIGHT side.
The REAR of the car which has less weight AND much stiffer springs begins to roll also, lifting the left hand side BUT NOT NEARLY AS MUCH. To relieve some of this contortion the rear tires skip to the RIGHT and the car begins a slight fishtail until the springs equalize strain (so a closer weight and grip is on the left and right) the turn ends and you putter along the way. (Oversteer)
The original poster put 10k(front) 12k(rear) springs on their car. The front roll resistance has increased 200% and the rear maybe only 50%.
Let's take that same left hand turn with these new springs,
- As you turn HARD LEFT the rear will roll more than the front, and the front tires skip to equalize the strain and you lose all grip/steering in the front. Then you go careening into the woods nose first. (Understeer)
Sway bars work in much the same way by increasing it's resistance to the roll. (Either front or back) The Original poster could probably correct some of that understeer by putting a larger bar and the rear, and a smaller or NO bar in the front.
So logically by this argument, you'd put the largest bar with the stiffest springs on the back right? Well, no. Because it's just as easy to fishtail and go ass first into the woods.
So when anyone asks "What is the best rear sway bar I can get?" it really depends on the setup of the car, there is no blanket answer.
For me, I have stock springs, and the ITR 21mm (or 22mm I don't remember) rear sway. This give me just a little more roll resistance in the rear, and just the right amount of oversteer. There are people on here who can drive a car with more oversteer around a corner faster than me, hands down. And if you want that type of performance I would suggest asking them. (And be VERY specific on what you have and what you want. Because like I said, ANY part for the suspension depends on other parts.) But I HIGHLY doubt most people want that type of performance, lets say.....in snow.
Good luck to all.
(And before some flame me on the GROSS inaccuracy I made on tire grip, slip angle, suspension frequency, roll center and so on... I was just giving a basic assessment. And I think for that purpose, I'm ok.)
Base on this post. You should have enter many autox events before buying anything. Aside from building your car, you have to build on your seat time and to understand your car at limit. Every driver drive the same car differently, so you should then build your setup accordingly. Also you have to understand the class you want to race in. Trust me, I've done what you did with my evo.
Go to Autox events and talk to some of the racers there. Many can tell you to come and race what you have, not buy what you can and then learn your car. In the end, just have fun.
(And before some flame me on the GROSS inaccuracy I made on tire grip, slip angle, suspension frequency, roll center and so on... I was just giving a basic assessment. And I think for that purpose, I'm ok.)
If your basic assessment was just to say that tuning a given suspension is subjective based on the intended use of said suspension... then sure, your ok.
but you have a lot of inaccuracies & grossly wrong assumptions as to how you came to that conclusion. One of them being your assessment of a suspensions stiffness based solely on that suspensions spring rate. Given that spring rates are only one of three variables that determine a given suspensions stiffness. the other two being the design of that suspension (Motion ratio) & the last being how much weight that suspension is holding.
Given the OP's spring rates + what we know of the other two variables... an EP3 with 10K(~560Lb/inch) front springs and 12K(~672Lb/Inch) rears, although initially appearing to have a stiffer rear, is actually stiffer on the nose. Just by calculating in the motion ratio of the front suspension Vs the rear shows that the front Wheel rate is ~8.2K(462.7Lb/inch) and the rear wheel rate is ~4.14K (232.3Lb/inch). So by adding in the 2nd variable we find the nose to already be nearly twice as stiff as the rear. Add in the final Variable, weight and you still end up with the nose being "stiffer". There's ~740Lbs on each front tire and ~460 on each rear tire. That leaves you with ~2.4Hz on the nose and ~2.2Hz on the rear. A substantially smaller difference then what wheel rates implied, but regardless the front is still stiffer.
This alone should prove to you that although your final conclusion was correct, suspension setups are subjective, the path you took to get it is flawed & filled with several misconceptions of whats actually going on with your suspension. And I hope this spurs you on to doing more research to learn the real hows and why's of your suspension.
I am looking into a Tanabe 22mm or the Type R 22mm or the progress 22mm. So many to pick from.
Dude, that's all I wanted...really. Car maintenance is just a hobby of mine, Real suspension setups are too much math for my interests. Everything I've said is coming from the perspective of a daily driver.
Despite my means, I don't think I lead him too far astray.
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