But my dad says...

[Tortoise]

Im goin with redline 5w30. Ive heard mixed reviews with them but i guess ill find out for myself.

[talonXracer]

whats really interesting is on the way back from the bar with my father the other night, we got on the topic of my friend obtaining a redline sponsorship or become a dealer, for my friends motorsports company hes building (im his builder). partially because i love redline and would like him to get hooked on it over that royal purple junk, and also because i want a way to get it for cheap. ANYWAY, back to my anecdote, my father started telling me that back in the 70s, when he was building the formula 2 and 3 cars in europe, they were all hooked on redline because of its film strength, so they were all able to run WAY lighter oils than what was available. Then when he got bask to the states and started racing in formula ford, ralph loining built him his trick motor, my father said no one east of the rockies was running redline and wondered if he could run a lighter weight oil, and loining said he should definitely do it. also because of the oil, he should stop running his oil cooler because of the properties of the oil, and the film strength at higher temps, he wouldnt loose lubrication. PLUS he could drop 20lbs off the car, and on a 800lb formula car, 20lbs is a lot of weight...

anyway, doug, your mention of lower weight oils reminded me of this and i thought i would share the neat old racers story i picked up thursday.

The environment and requirements of a Kseries DD vrs a Formula ford engine are worlds apart. The greatest issue is not during the actual continious operation, but during the stop and go, low rpm useage with engine starts and stops when the engine oil is at or above normal operating temps.

I have seen several DD engines come through the shop that seen 0w oil (and xw20) exclusively. And the thrust bearings were shot on EVERY engine with well under 75K miles on every one of them.

Using such light weight oil works very well with an engine designed with hydraulic tappets and use a auto trans, but as soon as you add the forces of the pressure plate and hot, low weight oil, the oil is wiped away from the thrust bearings and is not replaced until the clutch is released, and the solid roller rockers will cause all sorts of racket and accelerated wear.

The idle oil pressure seen at the #5 cam cap is approx 3-5 psi at operating temps with 5w-20 oil. Aftermarket and heavier OEM valve springs can and will overcome this oil pressure and allow the cam shafts to ride in the cam caps without a oil film and make the bore in the cam caps wear in a egg shape.

Noise = wear

CORRECT APPLICATION is the key!

[RedSiBaron]

The environment and requirements of a Kseries DD vrs a Formula ford engine are worlds apart. The greatest issue is not during the actual continious operation, but during the stop and go, low rpm useage with engine starts and stops when the engine oil is at or above normal operating temps.

I have seen several DD engines come through the shop that seen 0w oil (and xw20) exclusively. And the thrust bearings were shot on EVERY engine with well under 75K miles on every one of them.

Using such light weight oil works very well with an engine designed with hydraulic tappets and use a auto trans, but as soon as you add the forces of the pressure plate and hot, low weight oil, the oil is wiped away from the thrust bearings and is not replaced until the clutch is released, and the solid roller rockers will cause all sorts of racket and accelerated wear.

The idle oil pressure seen at the #5 cam cap is approx 3-5 psi at operating temps with 5w-20 oil. Aftermarket and heavier OEM valve springs can and will overcome this oil pressure and allow the cam shafts to ride in the cam caps without a oil film and make the bore in the cam caps wear in a egg shape.

Noise = wear

CORRECT APPLICATION is the key!

Oh I understand there's a major difference between a race requirement and dd...I just thought id share the neat story...

[TheKone]

Too thin for a Kseries DD in the lower 48, other than a few locations during the winter months.

But a 0w-30, 5w-30, 10w-30 and a straight 30 all have the same viscosity at operating temperature. I have used 0w-30, 5w-30 and 10w-30 and they all give me the exact same oil pressure at operating temp. The only difference is oil pressure at cold temps. I agree that a 20 weight is too thin for these engines but I don't understand why you say a 0w-30 is too thin.

[talonXracer]

Yes it is the cold rating, far too thin in warm climates, as I said up there in the great white north and in certain areas in the lower 48, that during the winter a 0w is the ticket. Down south and/or in hot temperatures you will fry the thrust bearing in very short order,,,,,ps, I am a part owner in a machine shop and have been rebuilding engines for close to 35 years now and since that 0w and w20 swill has been released, the amount of thrust bearing damage causing engine failure has spiked significantly and in almost every case the owner used that pisswater swill.

Even the stock pressure plate provides enough pressure that the oil film on the thrust bearing is defeated and there is direct metal to metal contact during starting. Enough of those starts and the engine is toast.

Oh I understand there's a major difference between a race requirement and dd...I just thought id share the neat story...

It is a interesting story, and actually does prove a point, that true synthetics are better! Redline has been my oil of choice for high rpm competition engines for years, but on the low rpm torque monsters a conventional dino oil changed frequently is fine.

[RedSiBaron]

speaking of dino oil in a low rpm driven (truck) motor...i had a whole case of valvoline max life 10w30 sitting around from when i dailyed my 86si...sorry, i mean drove my 86si, it was always a daily...anyhoo...i started the 240sx on that, and it has slowly but surely started softening up the valve seals. When i bought it, i was going through 2 quarts every 600miles...bad right!? i death-clouded smoke out the exhaust everywhere. then it turned into 2 quarts every 800miles with only smoke under full throttle before everything came up to operating temp. NOW its no longer smoking, and only burning about 1 quart every 800...good ol additive loaded dino oil

[junevtec]

still waiting on pics of that nsx dude lol.

[Calvinep3]

What about high milage a3's? 130,000k to be exact.

[Red_liner740]

What about high milage a3's? 130,000k to be exact.

130K km is high? so what 230k km that my car has?

[epcivicboy08]

Man, can't believe I've been using 5w20 all this time.

Not waiting for my regular interval to change oil.

[02_epdriver]

What about high milage a3's? 130,000k to be exact.

130k for an a3 is nothing. Others have hit over 200k. I'm at 193k right now, eventually will switch over to a big block but my a3 still runs like a champ on the original clutch.

I've used mostly amsoil 5w30 and 5w40. Ive used royal purple, mobile one, castrol syn. Ive used lots of oils since I bought my ep back in 04 with only 43,500 on the odo. I just switched over to Eneos in which my local napa has for 6.5 bucks a QT from the 8.00 I was paying for the amsoil