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  1. #16
    Registered User sleepy ep3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 04EP3Hatch View Post
    i think 10-12psi should have you set, keep your rev limit or hell lower it if your worried and go for gold, if you have a good tuner than you have nothing to worry about, just make sure you stress to him you want to keep it conservative lol
    Little secret....
    More boost, less timing.
    Anyway, why do we constantly post on things that are so obvious? To increase post count? The theory to making the Ep3 move faster is not rocket science. Stock boosted a3, or a swap. Ta-da. Either way, you have to spend money to make power. People would rather debate about 100 different ways to do it, rather than just make a decision. There are numerous(!) threads on ephatch for every single type of setup u could possibly want, and if all else fails, there is k20a.org. Not trying to be that guy, but how long should we debate over the weak points of the k20a3? Really?

  2. #17
    明らかにド素人 JDM SHIT! playap07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAF EP3 View Post
    Push it man, if we got these old school D16 fuckers pushing over 300whp with stock bottom ends and slightly built heads why can't the A3 do it too?
    lmao you a wild man!

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepy ep3 View Post
    Little secret....
    More boost, less timing.
    Anyway, why do we constantly post on things that are so obvious? To increase post count? The theory to making the Ep3 move faster is not rocket science. Stock boosted a3, or a swap. Ta-da. Either way, you have to spend money to make power. People would rather debate about 100 different ways to do it, rather than just make a decision. There are numerous(!) threads on ephatch for every single type of setup u could possibly want, and if all else fails, there is k20a.org. Not trying to be that guy, but how long should we debate over the weak points of the k20a3? Really?
    Because knowlege is power and if you can make a stock a3 push 400hp for a bit while making sure you keep the strain down on weak componets thats some big up props! I too wouldnt mind seeing or pushing the crap out of my a3 just to see if she has the balls but the point is trying to find the weak points and maybe overcome hopefully.?.?.

    Something i have learned over the years in diff motors. Some motors can actually handle some high ass hp with stock internals. The thing that kills those certain type of motors is how high the tq level is. If the tq was kept down to a safe level the engine could maintain this hp level and be safe for a dd. I AM NOT SURE IF OUR K20A3 CAN DO THIS. So do not think i am tryin to say our k series motors can. If someone wanted to do an experiment, more power too them. I am subscribed! Just knowing the weak points of your motor is great knowlege and it helps to build awarness.

    Just my silly 2 cents for ya
    Last edited by playap07; 04-26-2012 at 07:53 PM.

  3. #18
    Zut alors! gtolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepy ep3 View Post
    Little secret....
    More boost, less timing.
    Anyway, why do we constantly post on things that are so obvious? To increase post count? The theory to making the Ep3 move faster is not rocket science. Stock boosted a3, or a swap. Ta-da. Either way, you have to spend money to make power. People would rather debate about 100 different ways to do it, rather than just make a decision. There are numerous(!) threads on ephatch for every single type of setup u could possibly want, and if all else fails, there is k20a.org. Not trying to be that guy, but how long should we debate over the weak points of the k20a3? Really?
    Don't give me that. I don't give a shit about post count, and my EP3 is already quick, so I don't need your lecture.

    The reason is because just about NO one tries to do anything with the stock A3 and comes back with useful info. There are probably 100 threads about each and every K24 out there as well as the A2, A, Z1, Z3 and so on, but there are pretty much no threads with actual first hand information about why an A3 goes when it does, because no one tries to do anything with it, and if they do, they don't push it while trying to preserve it. On top of that, there's probably 10,000 posts of people dogging on the motor because regurgitated BS they heard from a friend of a friend who probably had a shitty tune in the first place. There are so many shit threads posted day in day out about questions that were answered last week and you come after this one where I am trying to build useful information.

    I don't need someone and I never asked for someone to hold my hand or make a decision for me, so come off it. I asked specifically for the weak links in the motor from people that have actually tried it because my tuner asked for the information so that he could most effectively work around potential issues. If you don't have anything productive to add, then please take it somewhere else. Thanks.

  4. #19
    Mean Old Bastard Lucid Moments's Avatar
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    Thereused to be threads out there about the A3 but they got lost due to time and server crashes. Lots of people tried lots of things with the a3 before the k24 swaps were common. I don't remember all the details but nobody got much beyond where you are.

    But give it a shot and you might find something new. And I'm not trying to be a smartass there I really mean it. If people don't try new shit then nobody will ever learn anything.

    My personal opinion is that you are going to find that the rods are not strong enough to handle more than you are giving them but it seems like you are prepared for that.

  5. #20
    Registered User sleepy ep3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gtolio View Post
    Don't give me that. I don't give a shit about post count, and my EP3 is already quick, so I don't need your lecture.

    The reason is because just about NO one tries to do anything with the stock A3 and comes back with useful info. There are probably 100 threads about each and every K24 out there as well as the A2, A, Z1, Z3 and so on, but there are pretty much no threads with actual first hand information about why an A3 goes when it does, because no one tries to do anything with it, and if they do, they don't push it while trying to preserve it. On top of that, there's probably 10,000 posts of people dogging on the motor because regurgitated BS they heard from a friend of a friend who probably had a shitty tune in the first place. There are so many shit threads posted day in day out about questions that were answered last week and you come after this one where I am trying to build useful information.

    I don't need someone and I never asked for someone to hold my hand or make a decision for me, so come off it. I asked specifically for the weak links in the motor from people that have actually tried it because my tuner asked for the information so that he could most effectively work around potential issues. If you don't have anything productive to add, then please take it somewhere else. Thanks.
    Do you not read, or know how to search? Look on here, and there are threads titled "K20a3 went kabloowie, time for a swap" and many variations thereof. In those threads, they explain what happened, and what broke. Its pretty much common knowledge of why the k20A3 is junk for making power efficiently, (financially and otherwise) but I guess you're one of those people

    NO.... People HAVE tried to make power with it and have either:

    A: Blew the K20A3 the fuck up
    or
    B: Spent way too much on making less than 300hp, thats not as reliable as a better / different motor with the same horsepower.

    Don't get butt hurt because your a troll, asking for info that can either be found by Google, or by searching Honda forums. You could easily search for "best k20 swap" and found out why people think that way just by reading the results, and why people don't recommend the a3.

    LOL, you're such a funny guy, I like you.

  6. #21
    big block turbo club superchargedk20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepy ep3 View Post
    Little secret....
    More boost, less timing.
    Anyway, why do we constantly post on things that are so obvious? To increase post count? The theory to making the Ep3 move faster is not rocket science. Stock boosted a3, or a swap. Ta-da. Either way, you have to spend money to make power. People would rather debate about 100 different ways to do it, rather than just make a decision. There are numerous(!) threads on ephatch for every single type of setup u could possibly want, and if all else fails, there is k20a.org. Not trying to be that guy, but how long should we debate over the weak points of the k20a3? Really?
    my favorite pointless threads will always be " how can I make my ep3 faster".. and my number 1 pointless thread of all time " which intake should I buy"

  7. #22
    Registered User AKEP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepy ep3 View Post
    Do you not read, or know how to search? Look on here, and there are threads titled "K20a3 went kabloowie, time for a swap" and many variations thereof. In those threads, they explain what happened, and what broke. Its pretty much common knowledge of why the k20A3 is junk for making power efficiently, (financially and otherwise) but I guess you're one of those people

    NO.... People HAVE tried to make power with it and have either:

    A: Blew the K20A3 the fuck up
    or
    B: Spent way too much on making less than 300hp, thats not as reliable as a better / different motor with the same horsepower.

    Don't get butt hurt because your a troll, asking for info that can either be found by Google, or by searching Honda forums. You could easily search for "best k20 swap" and found out why people think that way just by reading the results, and why people don't recommend the a3.

    LOL, you're such a funny guy, I like you.
    hell yeah too many disappointed people were on here once upon a time trying to spend 10K on a setup and not put any rods/pistons in, just to pop the motor. its usually rods and anything connected to them, or rods and everything connected to them. put in arp bolts, rods will snap, put in forged rods, blow up pistons. and forged rods and pistons, crankwalk.

    so you put in k20a2 crank and forged internals. what is that like 2k-2.5k on just the bottom in parts? just to make 500hp? i'll take my k24a1 and be done. a3 is junk. only good for a cheap k swap or an untapped forged block.

    have fun.

  8. #23
    Moderator=>PM 4 Help MugenReplica's Avatar
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  9. #24
    0EM xEcuTi0n Ba82Ep3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gtolio View Post
    On top of that, there's probably 10,000 posts of people dogging on the motor because regurgitated BS they heard from a friend of a friend who probably had a shitty tune in the first place...
    This is the number one reason you should do it... to show it can be done.

    Kevin's post holds merit. Single dingle (d15/16) owners have spent YEARS trying to prove to the community that boosted power can be reliable on the engines so many people threw away years ago for more popular swaps.

    Sound familar?

    One can consider the tunability of KPro (or any standalone for a k series for that matter) an asset that d/f series owners would have killed for 20 years ago. Even moreso... the knowledge and EXPERIENCE that comes with TIME spent finding out what works... and what doesnt (hole in the block).

    Sound familar?

    So... heres to the daily beaten k20a3.

    Admittedly mine isnt boosted yet but... every time i turn the key im reminded of how wrong so many people are/have been over the reliability of the k20a3 (small rods and mains take a beating NA as well yanno?). Anyone that knows me/how i drive, will attest to the durability of what is under my hood. But they will also tell you how much time i take tuning and maintaining my shit box. Its all part of it.

    If it were me, i would tune at 15psi with less advance than 10psi and more advance (and mind you my boost tuning is based mostly on SC'd setups, so feel free to tear this statement apart). Let the boost do its job without excess advance. The only bad thing about this is (and this will be more noticeable if he tunes each cam angle, which in itself can be a roll of the dice with every pull)... some cam angles will work best with more advance and others will work best with more boost. So, if you tune around complete reliability (less advance), depending on the turbo used, i can imagine the engine being extremely weak off the snail. Either way its going to be a compromise...

  10. #25
    Moderator=>PM 4 Help MugenReplica's Avatar
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    Not a K20a3, but I've always thought a K20a2/z1/z3 bottom end with a K24a1 head would be an amazing setup to play around with....

  11. #26
    Zut alors! gtolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ba82Ep3 View Post
    every time i turn the key im reminded of how wrong so many people are/have been over the reliability of the k20a3
    This is the reason for the thread. I think that a large amount of the information about how much various K-series motors can take, which is presented day in and day out as fact, is inaccurate. People told me for years before I turbo'd my car (and people still tell me today) that "there is absolutely no way" a stock A3 can handle over 300whp. Well guess what, I'm at 322 and have been for 4 years now. People say the rods are weak on the K24A4 because they are small (which is correct). I have a friend that ran that motor for over two years at over 500whp with zero issues.

    I have a perfectly good motor in my car right now. I'm not looking to swap (right now anyways) unless something does go wrong. I'm not asking what the best way to get to X amount of horsepower is. It's clearly a different motor. If I wanted to make 500+, I'd know exactly how to do it already. All I'm asking is, how much can this one take. I'm sorry if that rubbed anyone the wrong way.

  12. #27
    0EM xEcuTi0n Ba82Ep3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MugenReplica View Post
    Not a K20a3, but I've always thought a K20a2/z1/z3 bottom end with a K24a1 head would be an amazing setup to play around with....
    Thats basically what i have... minus the crank and rods... and the k24a1 head has flipped pin VTEC. The only thing im missing is another 1k 'safe' rpm VS an a2/z1/z3 complete bottom end (which is debatable). The plans were to boost (10psi), so i wasnt concerned about that tho... power to 7500rpm was all i cared about.

  13. #28
    0EM xEcuTi0n Ba82Ep3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MugenReplica View Post


    dis sh!t=funnY!

  14. #29
    Zut alors! gtolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKEP View Post
    hell yeah too many disappointed people were on here once upon a time trying to spend 10K on a setup and not put any rods/pistons in, just to pop the motor. its usually rods and anything connected to them, or rods and everything connected to them. put in arp bolts, rods will snap, put in forged rods, blow up pistons. and forged rods and pistons, crankwalk.

    so you put in k20a2 crank and forged internals. what is that like 2k-2.5k on just the bottom in parts? just to make 500hp? i'll take my k24a1 and be done. a3 is junk. only good for a cheap k swap or an untapped forged block.

    have fun.
    Agreed totally. I've never thought that building an A3 was worth it in any shape or form. With what it would cost, there are FAR better options out there. Upping the boost costs me nothing. If I get to 350, I'll be happy with it. If I were going for 500 it would be on a K24A1, head studs and turn up the boost, call it a day.

    The fact of the matter is, I'm setting up my car for road racing and I don't need or want that much power. I'm going to run boost by gear as well, so I think that will help. I'll probably lower the boost in 1st and 2nd, keep it the same in 3rd, and raise it in 4th and 5th.
    Last edited by gtolio; 04-27-2012 at 09:54 AM.

  15. #30
    Registered User 04EP3Hatch's Avatar
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    see this is where i side with gtolio, i beleive it can be done WITH a competent tuner that knows a thing or two about an A3. Is the A3 the runt of the litter? yes, does that mean its garbage.. no. it is to the people that dont have the will to research/try the process to make the power and make it well. Look at me, i am FLIRTING with the disaster 300whp zone, im probably over it on a cold day, and i beat the HELL out of my car, literally just now on the way home from my g/f's i did a pull to 160mph, practiced my launches for when i go to the track, and had some other spirited fun. i do this shit on a regular basis with my car and it keeps coming back for more. but back on topic, gtolio, go for it. like i said i'd attempt 12psi first and go from there, i know you made over 300 by a decent amount and another 2psi will probably yeild you another 30-40 if the setup allows. and make sure the tuner you are using is damn good one and make sure you tell him "listen, were really in uncharted territory here" so he can keep it easy on the advance and go from there, personally invest in some safety mod's, a small water/meth kit, e85 fuel, etc.

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