Hasbro's Build Journal

[Hasbro]

Feb. 17, 2012

This isn't a show off thread, just a build journal where I can document my progress. While it won't fit most people's ideal of an EP, I can guarantee you it will be quite different.

edit 12/26/12; I will edit the first six posts often so the basics will be readilly available. Updates will be marked with the date and in bold.

I'll probably jot notes to myself on here,too. Bear with me.

Anticipate slow going as my paying job is preceded by my being a caregiver to an ailing family member. Bear with me.

edit 12/25/12; been writing this every now and then over the past months and have found some contradictions due to the different times I've added stuff. Bear with me.

GOALS:

to build EP to highest handling levels while still being an efficient, dependable, and, uh, comfortable daily driver;

2100 - 2250 lbs. (-525 lbs. to -675 max)

1.1? -1.2? gs cornering on Toyo RA1 245/45/16s, ? gs on 275/35/15 Hoosiers?

12lbs/1whp, K20A3, 10lbs./1whp, K24

40+ mpg, K24 and overdrive 6th gear

body - 6" shorter, flared for larger tires and wider track

Improved aero efficiency, including undertray, to help offset performance mods


CURRENT SPECS

Stock 136whp, 17.28 lbs/whp (stock is 20.4)
Edit, 1/14; 148-150 whp approx., 15.7 lbs/whp

AEM 2.5" Cai with 4" Spectre cone filter, 6"x6.75"

Hondata Reflash.

Kosei T1R 16x8.5", 37 mm offset, 5mm spacers, rear
Edit, 10/13; 10mm hubcentric spacers all around

Kumho Ecsta XS 225/50/16
(Edit (2/27/13); Dunlop's new ZII 225/45s coming soon)
edit; nope, Toyo RA1 245/45/16s arrive 7/9/13.

7/13 Toyo RA1 245/45/16s up front, Kumhos rear for now.

Koni Yellow customed for more travel, GNC with Swift springs, 336# front/ Eibach, 515# rear (why so low 336/515? see SUSPENSION below)

9/1/13; Hotchkis camber plates reversed for caster and extended for more travel, caster unknown.Approx. 4* Custom caster plate coming.

Type R front lcas

Type R front and rear sways

Camber bolts, rear adjustable camber arms, etc.

R chassis stiffeners (don't have all yet)

Odyssey 680 battery, 13 lbs.
Edit, 9/1; 2.4 lb. lithium Iron (not ion) battery!

Corbeau FX-1, 20 lbs., no passenger seat (usually)

Custom Wilwoods, -15 lbs., Wilwood pads similar to Hawk HP Plus, a little more grip and dirtier!

3/31/13; 2430 lbs.
5/26/13; 2400 lbs.
6/29/13; 2385
9/1/13; 2350, -425, -100 minimum to go (close!).
1/15/14; 2330 approx.

[Hasbro]

WEIGHT REMOVAL

Goal; 2250 to 2125 lbs. Removal of 525-650 lbs.

(3/24); about 2430 lbs (-345 lbs.) 5/26/13; about 2400 lbs./-375 lbs.1/15/14 about 2330/-445

I'm obsessed with lightening cars. Had four cars under 1400 lbs. and several under 1600 lbs. To me, cars over 2,000 lbs. are tanks! This is about my 5th or

6th gutted street car so it's not new to me. Most people can't handle a gutted street car but, to me, it makes every errand fun. If I had to do the sheeple every day commute it would suck but being self employed eliminates the drudgery drives. Often I will wear ear plugs, though.

Reasons for reducing weight:

better handling

better braking

better accelleration

better mpg (city)

better tire wear

less stress to chassis and drive train



Two days after purchasing the EP in 2006, I'd removed about 250 lbs. The EP was immediately a better car! The majority was from the interior rear and oversteer was more prominant, a good thing. The next step is to remove weight from the middle of the car, the front interior. About 100 pounds in front of the firewall, too. The Odyssey battery and custom cold air intake takes about 25 lbs. from the front left, which is very important for weight balancing. Then a 3 lb. battery and lighter flywheel makes a total of about 50 lbs. from the front left but getting a bit ahead of myself...

The next project (2/2012) should be really fun. Replacing the 32 lb. sunroof system with Lexan.

I expect to remove around 170 lbs from the forward interior, which will bring sprung weight removal to over 400 lbs. Oh Boy!

Forward of the A pillars about 100 more lbs. That will bring the balance to where it should be by my calculations. Further sprung weight removal will be all gravy.

Only about another 60 lbs. will come off of unsprung weight due to 22 lb. tires, 16 lb. wheels, R arms,coilovers, etc.

So, I'm being conservative by shooting for 2225 lbs. 2150 or even less would be incredible, however - breaching 1991 Civic weight territory! :)

HOW TO BUILD A DECENT HANDLING STREET EP FOR THE LEAST AMOUNT OF MONEY!

Take one stock EP
Pull about 200 lbs., mostly from the rear interior. Free and easy.
Sticky 225/50/16 tires such as Dunlop ZIIs, BFG Rivals (best), Bridgestone RE-11As, Hankook RS-3s. I prefer 225/45.
Add front and rear camber bits, -1.5 front, -.75 rear. I prefer more, such as -2.5,-1.75. Huge difference!
Adjust tire psi and camber to taste. Tire pressures should be in the higher range due to stock dampers and springs. Rears can be 8 lbs. or so less than fronts, though.
That's it! No bigger rear stabilizer bar due to less weight in the rear (but I highly recommend a used RSX S (21mm) or CTR (22mm).


*Trivia

Apples and oranges but at 2225 lbs., only 18 more whp than stock are required to equal the JDM Type R's weight to whp ratio
of 14.7/1.

At 2100 lbs., only 7whp!

*I rate the Type R at 212bhp and multiply by .85 for whp., so;
EP is 136whp, jdm is 180whp, UKdm is 167.5, Usdm S is 167.5whp.

[Hasbro]

SUSPENSION:

First off; thanks to SHG_EasyE, Zzyzyx, and Mustclimb. And Andy Hollis for the alignment help and a few other tips! And Keith Tanner from Flyin'Miata for tire help, among other stuff for the past ten years! Thanks for your time, patience, and sharing.I am humbled.

Current Specs;

Koni/Ground Control/Swift springs, 336f/515r, R bars front and rear, Type R front lca, custom 11.75" Wilwoods.

Alignment 4/18/13;
"Andy Hollis de-tuned street version"
front - camber -2.1 right, -1,9 left, caster approx. 1.5(working on it), toe (working on it), Konis left 1/2 turn from soft, right 1/4 turn.
rear - camber -2 l&r, toe (working on it), Konis 1/4 turn from firm.

Edit, 5/12; -2.1 right front/2.0 lf, Konis front 1 3/4 left/ 1 1/2r turns to firm.
-2.3/2.4 rear, full firm

Edit, 9/3; -2.5+ camber front and rear. Track now at 61+" front, 60+ rear due to increased camber and 10mm spacers. Track width is final. Edit; no, it's not, lol.

Edit, 1/21/14; -2.5f camber, rear -2.7, fixed rear toe, front caster approx 4* Based on Vicath's (on ClubRSX) similar caster work -need to get it precise.

Edit, 3/21/14; camber -2.7f, -3.0r, dropped psi to approx 30/33 cold. Handling is finally what it should be. Springs still too soft.




I used a suspension calculator to use hertz as a preliminary guideline towards developing spring weight. This is just a tool to get in the ballpark and provide consistancy as the suspension evolves. It's a lot of fun and has worked very well but eventually will prove inneffective as track width, tires etc. changes. Good place to start.

I'm starting with the softest springs as possible for best handling characteristics. 336 lbs. front/ 515 rear at 2225 lbs. is about equal to 400f/750r on a stock weight EP. In the process of getting down to 2225 lbs. the 336/515 springs will be inadequate but that's life - I have some 375 lb. springs that can be thrown on the fronts if necessary. At 2225 the Konis will come off and the permanent coilovers will be installed. Pretty much had my mind set on custom double adjustable racing Konis (J. Mercado) but might be taking a different route. We'll see. edit; also looking into digressive valved rally dampers.

The Koni/Swift setup with the lighter rear doesn't need the Type R bar yet. The handling is as perfect as it could be right now (currently 2500 lbs., 336f/515r). edit, 3/2/13; rear R bar is in and front R bar and lca go in in couple of weeks along with Dunlop ZIIs. And a 5mm rear spacer to clear lca.

Playing with a 3/4- 1" drop plus the next tires will also drop another 1/4-1/2".

Lots of other stuff. Can you say caster? Working on a custom caster plate very soon.



Comparisons;

Stock spring hertz - 1.65 front/ 1.80 rear (approximates)

Current hertz - 1.95 front/ 2.15 rear, 336f/515r 1/15/14;current hz., 2.02/2.24 (getting there). Shooting for 2.25f/2.5r, 400#f/600#r.

With a wider track from camber, front R lcas (10 or 15?mm), and wider tires and offset (-8mm) the springs will have to increase but will try to go for softest possible. This is mostly a street car.


edit 12/8/12; a while back I aquired four like new Kosei K1Rs, 16x8 1/2, 37 mm offset. They are perfect but will probably powdercoat them some type of black. For now I'll leave them alone. Still have the Kumho XSes but will go witha wider and smaller diameter tires up front(like Toyo R88 245/45 or Bridgestone RE-11 245/45s) and 225/45/16s in the rear.The Toyos would provide 9.4" of front tread but that's 6 more lbs. of unsprung weight.

edit 12/12; I'll probaly go with 225/45s front and back as the wheels are 8.5" wide and the tread is just under 8.5", which is perfect. I could get 9.5" front wheels and go with 245 slicks for the track - leave the 225s on the back. And use the stock wheels for long distance runs...

1/28/13 Finally bought some Ray's Dura Nuts and put the Kumhos on the Koseis. -25 lbs.



TESTING

I have great places to test the handling. One is a deserted housing development that is gated to the public. Completely empty with clear veiws (desert), soft curbs and fresh smooth pavement. Top speeds are only about 50 but it's free so... There is a curve that starts downhill then rises and drops to an off camber exit, which gives a lot more response than the actual 40 mph speed. The Kumho XSes really shine as a street tire as they are so easy to feel and control and they are great in the desert heat. Very pleased so far.

*Will probably go with 17x9(16 lbs.) wheels and Toyo R1R 245/35/17s for the street, not sure about track yet. The 245/35s
will drop the car height over 1/2" without suspension travel loss and give a lower final drive which will help with the heavy wheels/tires and low hp but still do 60+ mph in 2nd with KPro.

* edit; 8/12; found Kosei 16x8.5s so I'll be playing with them for a while. They'll let me go to 225/45s and still have some give for the street.

[Hasbro]

BODY

A lot of you EPers will not care for the body design. Basically it will be rounder, lol. Shorter by a bit over 6", wider by about 3-4"(flares up front) and a bit lower. The rear hatch will be very simple with flat Lexan. A wing for the track will be romavable and attached to the interior floor and will penetrate through a seperate Lexan also made for the track. Form follows function. This will be a long way off so don't hold your breath.

Don't want to get into this but I will reposition the windshield flush with the body/a frame and also flush the side lexan windows. Don't ask.

Edit, 2/3/13; Going to try modifying stock bumper first by cutting top flat portion to allow bumper to recess 1.5" at center, 2.5" at corners. That angle will direct some air flow to the sides, also. Carbon fiber hood will direct some engine air over roof, increasing faster air underneath. So, If anyone has a cheap oem bumper, let me know.






Side plastic will not be used. Also, this pic is not my car;




INTERIOR

Goal:

Well, gutted. Custom dash for just the basics. Rear portion behind seats will have a Lexan divider to lower noise and make cabin smaller for ac efficiencey in the desert.

12/12; having to drive my brother (I'm his caregiver) around has seriously slowed this process down. Drives me crazy but bro comes first. I would have about another 200 lbs. out by now. sigh...

6/19/13; Corbeau seat saves 15 lbs. Will pull 30+ lbs more from interior within the month. Will put weight at about 2350. Slowly getting there!

[Hasbro]

DRIVE TRAIN

Thanks, Ba82EP3, for putting up with me!

Goals:

K20a3
Pretty much stock now and will only be mildly modified in the near future. At 2225 lbs., stock motor at 136 whp (15.9 lbs/whp) will be approximately equal to a stock weight EP (stock; 20.4 lbs/whp) with 174 whp. So basic add ons of about 30-40 whp will really wake this car up. Performance numbers should be a bit better than the JDM CTR (14.7 lbs/whp).

edit; 12/25/12, Within next few months EP should weigh 2375-2350 with approx 148 whp (16 lbs/whp). About the same ratio as a stock Type S. At this point, I will finally find the car at a satisfactory level and, if I chose to stop here, I could live with and really enjoy it. Not gonna happen, just saying. < (inserted street vernacular for coolness)

Tranny will have an overdrive 6th gear for fuel efficient and lower rpm street driving. Not sure about final drive. Also not sure when an lsd will be installed but that's essential and not having one is driving me batshit. < (cave-speak)

I might just skip the K20a3 mods and aquire a K24 and build it up over time in the garage. Ba828 has been very helpful (and patient!) educating me re. a build up and I would like an na motor in the 230 whp range but with more concentration on a wide range torque set up. This route is a long way off.

edit; 12/12; Will probably add mods to the A3 but only those that can be transferred to a K24. So, no port matching parts etc. until they go on the K24. Probably a K24a4 that can be built up slowly in the garage.

4/2/13, Flavor Of the Month; K23a3, new head, cam, reverse pin. I'll leave it there for now.

[Hasbro]

Great threads, videos, books, etc.

Meant to do this a year ago. Have a ton of stuff to add - most of it having to do with handling, pulling weight, suspension stuff.

Build Threads

SHG_Easy_E's build thread - best EP build thread around
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2748948

SHG's track DC5 build - also excellent
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=792361

HondaFreak!
http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthr...ge-San-Jose-CA


Suspension Stuff

Z Man's Alignment Thread
http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthr...eet-Alignments

Z Man's Suspension Tuning, a short ditty
http://forums.clubep3.com/showthread.php?t=573805

Mustclimb's Custom Spring Rates
http://forums.clubep3.com/showthread.php?t=565676

Read everything they have
http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets5.html

Spring rate and Frequency Calculator - very handy tool for figuring out hz. and spring weight, etc.
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=666471

RSX Suspension Modeling Results - What the title says. Read it.
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=717355

Hardcore Rear Suspension Discussion Must read if you want to
know about our suspension
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=684781

More must read about our crap suspension - but don't be disheartened, there is hope!
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2621516

Spring Rates/Drop Rates
http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthr...ates-Drop-rate

Powers' Need suspension advice on all aspects A good thread about starting up a handling suspension. Powers is currently taking it a good bit further.
http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthr...on-all-aspects


Videos

Euro EPs racing- thanks Urthworm! See how our EPs should handle!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoxSkSqAVrQ

Same track - this one. I want this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D-D4...51vMBlf7sOSGRN

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRq_F...51vMBlf7sOSGRN

More Swiss Hillclimb with many different types of great cars handling the same corners - good study
http://www.wrchd.com/best-swiss-hill...-always-limit/


Books

Puhn, How To Make Your Car Handle

[black05ep]

Good thread.i like how your planning this out. Good luck.

[Ba82Ep3]

Yeah baby this is official shit. Talk about laying your plans out!

[superchargedk20]

Sick bro. Good read

[charles]

Man with a plan! Good stuff

[303EP]

Looking forward to the final product

[Hasbro]

Good thread.i like how your planning this out. Good luck.

Yeah baby this is official shit. Talk about laying your plans out!

Sick bro. Good read

Man with a plan! Good stuff

Looking forward to the final product

Thanks for the votes of confidence! Started this thread almost a year ago but have been waiting for things in my financial sector to improve. Should be a productive winter after I return from the holidays.

[Hasbro]

Merry Christmas!!!


When I get back from holiday travels in January I will finally have a couple grand to play with. It's amazing how far $2,000.00 doesn't go. Mostly it will go towards detail crap for suspension; spherical offset bushings, rcas, pressing, alignment, some labor, etc. That should take about a grand.

Maybe the next grand should go towards a reflash, header, and mid-pipe... or maybe lsd... or maybe for shedding 50 lbs or so... or maybe flare work... sigh.

edit 12/26/12; doing a little research (Ba82) re. bolt ons for a little more power to hold me a while. With a cai and header etc. this could pull 10-20? lbs. off the front, too, so that's a motivater for me.

How long would it take to have a guy install an lsd? I'd help but that may add more time.

Sorry about bad pic but the little piece of wood taped to the rim shows where the Kosei rims should be due to wider rims and Type R lca.

[WhiteComet]

this thread is awesome. I tried to achieve the same things you did with my build. The main difference is that I wanted to keep all the seats and the all the sound deadening material. Here's what I did to lighten my car:

- removed jack/spare (-45)
- DC5R lcas (-10lbs)
- Wilwood BBK (-10lbs)
- carbon fiber hood (-30lbs)
- cold air intake (-5lbs)
- 11lb flywheel (-5lbs)
- odyssey pc680 with pwjdm bracket (-13lbs)
- 16" rotas @ 16lbs (-20lbs)
- cargo cover (-2lbs)
- JDM front/rear bumpers (-10)

I'm guessing my changes only removed around 150lbs total, but added some of it back by getting a k24a2. Anyone know how much weight I'll remove by taking out the rear wiper motor?

[lemonhead228]

This would be a fun little project car lol

i read an article on reducing weight on a ep3 off clubep3.

if you need it, i can try to find if for you.