To be honest I am being serious
ease of maintenance? you change your filter every 10-15,000 km's, Risk of Hydro lock? unless you are driving through some deep puddles, this point means nothing, Drive ability, will throttle response be improved? perhaps, Acceleration? well if you put it on a dyno that will show weather it has been improved and if you make more low end torque it'll show there
Peak torque? well you need a dyno for that
Cold weather driving? well how would that change from Short ram-stock-cai? all the Scalers (air temp, water temp) are in the ecu so that really shouldnt chance all that much between all the intake
And all the effort you are making to lower intake temps with this other Box could be applied to the stock box
So yes I'd love to see a dyno between the 2, i'd love to see how a air box that is Harmonically tuned for a B16A performs compared to a harmonically tuned box for a K20A
the Dyno would show where the peak power is, if you ever improved torque therefore improved drivablilty I don't see how a box tuned for a 1.6L is going to be superior to a 2.0L box
the Nsx Box for sure 100% could very well be an improvement.
Here you go, the Spoon box is essentially a Stock box with a foam element filter and these was tested on I believe a stock B18, Your stock box will be making more torque than a b16 one which is far too small for a k20, Now if you redirected the inlet on the stock box and had some heat sheilding on the stock box with a k/n filter you'd could possibly make more power
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1722556
I too wondered if an Airbox from a 1.6 would be effective but as always you don't know unless you try. The box is relatively small but the inlet is large and the outlet as well. Because it was tuned for a 1.6 doesn't mean it won't work on another motor, which in my case is a K24a2.
* Filter maintenance is dependent on location and in my case the front of the fender well, which gets dirty fast.
* Agree hydro lock is unlikely, however it was something I always had in the back of my mind, which was a pain.
* Torque is not what makes good drive-ability.
* Cold weather drive-ability was effected by the intake. Drive-ability was better with an SRI because the intake temps were more stable and the engine could intake air quicker (see comment about dead spots below). I often had to adjust things in KPro to improve drive-ability between the seasons. Parameters like Fuel-Overrun, Temp compensation, idle valve duty..
I like this definition; "Drive-ability describes the qualitative assessment of the vehicle's response to the driver's input"
* No Bucking
* No High/Low Idle issues
* No Acceleration dead spots
* Smooth Acceleration - No stepping or large power drops
This is not theory, it's fact based on direct experience. With the CAI there was a dead spot in the low RPM's just after initial clutch release. This presented itself more in cold weather than warm but was annoying. It wasn't fuel related and I suspect it was because the volume of available air was either not sufficient or couldn't get flowing fast enough but I don't know.
I also experienced bucking depending on the season and had to adjust KPro parameters. Since the airbox install, there is none.
As for Dyno's, yes I have some preliminary comparisons and the airbox graphs show better than the CAI in most of the range, however I didn't want to share until I've got the airbox installed to my satisfaction.
The stock box doesn't fit in my car with the K24, that's why I'm trying something else. Also, I'm fairly certain the stock k20a3 airbox doesn't have as large inlets or direct flow as this b16 airbox. I'll measure and post it here.
So, besides the dyno numbers which I have (and are superior so far..) -- all of the other items I mentioned are important to my qualitative assessment of the vehicle's response to the driver's input :)
Ba82 is a whiz at this sort of stuff. Read any of his threads.
All these issues that you listed are things that are tuned In K-pro
* No Bucking
* No High/Low Idle issues
* No Acceleration dead spots
* Smooth Acceleration - No stepping or large power drops
So if you have a Dynos why are you even arguing this? post them up!
You could also easily post up a data log of a stock box, Cai, and your box the Duty cycle and afr's will easily show which box is making power
that flat spot may not be fuel related but very easily be timing related or cam phasing, remember the ecu is tuned for a stock box so any time you mess with anything on the motor to be full optimized (No flat spots, idle issues) it needs to be tuned with datalogs driving in real world situations,
Don't base my experience on my post count I've been doing this for a very long time, and for someone to say a d/b16 airbox is better than a stock airbox that comes with that motor and ecu id call it crap every time, now on the other hand an NSX box Flows enough for 200+Hp because the engine is rated above that.
Yes, they are things tuned in KPro - Some more difficult that others...Only they don't need tuning with the airbox from season to season but they do with the CAI I was running.Originally Posted by Bwek
You can call crap on the stock airbox vs. the b16 airbox, however the stock airbox -- is in fact not stock for my motor --. The stock box is for a k20a3 making 160hp/132 ft.lbs. I have a K24a2 with a longer stroke making alot more hp/tq. Still K-Series but much different so the argument doesn't make sense. It's really a moot point anyways since the stock aribox will not physically fit in my engine bay.
I won't debate your experience, however why don't you take a different approach and share you experience instead of arguing... I'm doing the ephatch community a service by trying something different and sharing my results.
Last edited by Slip_Angle; 05-19-2013 at 07:24 AM.
Preliminary Dyno Comparison.
CAI = Orange
Airbox = Blue
Your efforts are most appreciated!
Is the only difference on the dyno comparo the box/cai?
Yes. Keep in mind this is a dyno calculated by a run on the road vs a real dyno. I do take care to make sure the runs are as similar as possible. IE: No wind, up/down hill, bumps etc..
Good update, thanks!
Thinking about going the RDX or Z3 route next time around.
Might have to start scouring the local junkyards :)
Made a few changes to the airbox to solve a couple of problems. First, the intake was sitting on top of the coolant hose so as the engine got warmer and the coolant got hot it would transfer heat to the airbox. In addition, I wanted to raise the intake a bit higher to get closer to the wheel well but make sure I would clear the steering arm.
To solve this, I extended the intake tube. The airbox now sits further back in the engine bay, well clear of the coolant hose. One drawback with this was that the extended tube caused the airbox to sag just a bit so I decided to add the bracket to ensure it was secure. The bracket(s) are temporary until I can make something that is more aesthetically pleasing. I added more bands on the joints for stability. It's very secure now, possibly over done but better safe than sorry!
The rubber intake inlet sits right at the edge of the wheel well so it can ingest cold air.
Last edited by Slip_Angle; 05-25-2013 at 01:43 PM.
Where in the wheel well compared to where a cai would go? Does the tube run under the battery?
CAI comes out in front of the wheel. This airbox has a feed that comes out just back from center of the wheel. Right where the steering arm/tie rod are located.
Man this thread woke up.
Ive been working on gas mileage with the custom CAI... and have experienced the bucking and dead spots between 1500 and 2500rpm. My VTEC setup isnt your run of the mill, and i also have an issue i believe is rocker/pin related so i cant say the bucking and dead spots are solely CAI related when compared to the air box.
i need some more time for thorough assessment. The thread is moving along greatly though...
: )
Last edited by Ba82Ep3; 05-29-2013 at 04:30 PM.
Check the trip and gas gauge... warmer weather really helps with the gas mileage...
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