Hondata releases the K20A3-Si Civic flash upgrade

[myeverlovinsir]

Originally posted by gpt


The chart you are comparing to is with CAI and header. I also only have a CAI but there are no charts showing the flash and CAI only (which is strange because on Hondata's site it says the flash is designed for this) Lets hope we see the flash and CAI dyno soon!

I think it is worth it because of the more broad increase in torque it offers over a header upgrade (and the higher rev limit!)

Guys, expect similar gains in the 10hp range and close to the header included. The stock header and midpipe are gonna show reasonable results with just the AEM CAI, no question.

[SouthHonda]

My question is aimed more toward Hondata than anyone else. I looked at the website and didnt see an answer to this.
In my experience selling aftermarket parts (approx 7 years now) I have seen, sold, used a few different brand names and wanted to know what kind of follow up service can buyers expect??

Example: About two years ago the Venom400 hit the market and was touted as the next big thing to get. I sold a ton of them and saw over half the customers unhappy and looking at me for an answer as to why they saw little or no results with the product. Python/Venom realized that on a stock vehicle these things did okay, usually 5 or 6 horsepower. But when installed on a modified vehicle (includes anything I/H/E and beyond) they were not producing any kind of gains whatsoever. Venom/Python started taking the v400's back and changed them to work on cars with more than the normal I/H/E. Actually seeing a decent power gain on some of the cars. Other cars still saw nothing. So the customers basically threw away $300 on them. It got to a point where I personally quit selling them and started reccommending optional products in the same price range.

My question to you is this. Is your product gauranteed to make horsepower on not only stock vehicles but modified vehicles (beyond I/H/E)?? If it is and I dont see gains to satisfy myself for a $600 investment, will you guys offer an upgrade or custom version for each individual car?? There are companies out there that offer one time reprograms of stock ECU's (Jet, HyperTech,Superchips, etc) for the state of tune you vehicle is currently in. Is this what we are buying?? Or is is the upgrade able to be modified by the installer later to customize it toward an individual car??

These questions are meant in no way to badmouth or downgrade your product in any way. I myself need to know this before I invest a decent size chunk of cash into it.

Thank you for your time
Scott Hayworth

[myeverlovinsir]

Originally posted by SouthHonda
My question is aimed more toward Hondata than anyone else. I looked at the website and didnt see an answer to this.
In my experience selling aftermarket parts (approx 7 years now) I have seen, sold, used a few different brand names and wanted to know what kind of follow up service can buyers expect??

Example: About two years ago the Venom400 hit the market and was touted as the next big thing to get. I sold a ton of them and saw over half the customers unhappy and looking at me for an answer as to why they saw little or no results with the product. Python/Venom realized that on a stock vehicle these things did okay, usually 5 or 6 horsepower. But when installed on a modified vehicle (includes anything I/H/E and beyond) they were not producing any kind of gains whatsoever. Venom/Python started taking the v400's back and changed them to work on cars with more than the normal I/H/E. Actually seeing a decent power gain on some of the cars. Other cars still saw nothing. So the customers basically threw away $300 on them. It got to a point where I personally quit selling them and started reccommending optional products in the same price range.

My question to you is this. Is your product gauranteed to make horsepower on not only stock vehicles but modified vehicles (beyond I/H/E)?? If it is and I dont see gains to satisfy myself for a $600 investment, will you guys offer an upgrade or custom version for each individual car?? There are companies out there that offer one time reprograms of stock ECU's (Jet, HyperTech,Superchips, etc) for the state of tune you vehicle is currently in. Is this what we are buying?? Or is is the upgrade able to be modified by the installer later to customize it toward an individual car??

These questions are meant in no way to badmouth or downgrade your product in any way. I myself need to know this before I invest a decent size chunk of cash into it.

Thank you for your time
Scott Hayworth

Great questions, I am not only wondering the same, but am convinced that the same will happen here. Hondata please respond. And thanks for your input.:angel:

[CleanBlackSi02]

Originally posted by Az02Si
I just got my ecu back from Hondata TODAY.OMG this is how the car SHOULD HAVE FELT from the factory.I am COMPLETLY STOCK motorwise,and just added the flashed ecu....The car has a damn top end now!And im shifting to 4th at almost 90mph instead of that weak 82-83 crap.Thats what i really missed about my B16...The topend.Sorry but STOCK the k20a3 topend sucks,but trust me,this ecu REALLY woke the car up.It feels like a nice,SMOOTH shift in the powerband,with some nice extra midrange power thrown in for good measure.Something about the sound of out motor approaching 8K that makes me warm and fuzzy inside ;)

My main question is...can we finish the quarter mile in third gear?!

[02SilverSiHB]

Originally posted by CleanBlackSi02

My main question is...can we finish the quarter mile in third gear?!

since it maxxes out at about 90mph in third, I'd say yes. My trap speeds have never gone over 87. I can't wait to see someone go to the track...like AZ02Si

[IceD out N CALI]

Originally posted by 02SilverSiHB
since it maxxes out at about 90mph in third, I'd say yes. My trap speeds have never gone over 87. I can't wait to see someone go to the track...like AZ02Si

me too:)

[CleanBlackSi02]

If that's the case we'll be seeing easy low 15's stock w/ Hondata.

[SiRman]

We tested An's car on the same road on a 75 deg day, 2 runs each direction with each ECU program back to back. Baselines were 8.0 seconds, thanks in part to his heavy camber (his car is lowered a lot) and worn tires (insides were worn bald). It was very difficult to get out of the hole without significant spin.

Launching the car was much more difficult than the stock car I drove last year. The extra camber really hurts the contact patch for straight ahead driving, not to mention the worn out tires. If you were to correct An's baseline times for temps, they would have approximately matched or slightly edged our stock car times. With a stock alignment setup, his car would have been much quicker in both tests as launching the stock car was simply a matter of dropping the clutch at low rpms (~2k) and flooring it - piece of cake. That approach in An's car resulted in massive wheelspin.

I'm no dyno expert, but I suspect that An's low dyno results are
at least in part due to his tire condition/camber.

It would be interesting to see his dyno results with good tires and
correct camber setup.

[myeverlovinsir]

Originally posted by SiRman




I'm no dyno expert, but I suspect that An's low dyno results are
at least in part due to his tire condition/camber.

It would be interesting to see his dyno results with good tires and
correct camber setup.

Your right, your not a dyno expert, he would never spin the tires on the dyno, at least not this power range. The results are not dependant on bald tires/camber one way or the other.

[SiRman]

There may not be noticeable slipping, but even a little could effect the results.

I know this to be true with motorcycles anyways.

[myeverlovinsir]

Originally posted by SiRman
There may not be noticeable slipping, but even a little could effect the results.

I know this to be true with motorcycles anyways.

Sure, there could be some slipage in a motorcycles dyno, mostly due to low mass and wheel hop. Given. But a cars wheels slipping on the dynojet, inertial meter, it can happen...but that's just grasping at straws. I don't know if Shawn uses a tortional waterbreak dyno or inertial setup. He should respond I guess.:angel:

[ChurchAutoTest]

Fortunately, wheelspin and camber are not an issue. At Church Auto Test we use a Dynapack dyno, which is a hub model. This means we remove the wheels and bolt the dyno directly to the hubs. This eliminates all the nasty variables like strap down tension, tire pressure, alignment, etc. It allows us to truly see what the engine is doing instead of worrying about the other issues. For tuning purposes, it is, IMO, the best system on the market.

Generally, this dyno reads 5-10 hp higher than a traditional roller dyno like the Dynojet thanks to eliminating the tire issues. However, you cannot directly compare results between the two types of dynos. In fact, you should never compare results between two different types of dynos. Any dyno can be used to compare before and after results on a car, just make sure that you follow proper procedure and control the test variables - which depend on the sort of dyno you're using. A chassis dyno is not a good tool for measuring absolute power, but for measuring power differentials.

That's why I suggested you guys read the dyno section at the Hondata site. :-)

SC

[SiRman]

Sorry,literally just read and was about to post that info off Church's site. :o

[SiRman]

Sure, there could be some slipage in a motorcycles dyno, mostly due to low mass and wheel hop. Given. But a cars wheels slipping on the dynojet, inertial meter, it can happen...but that's just grasping at straws. I don't know if Shawn uses a tortional waterbreak dyno or inertial setup. He should respond I guess.

Sorry just an idea I had, should have checked the info before posting. I still think this could be an issue on a trad. dyno. though.

[myeverlovinsir]

Originally posted by ChurchAutoTest
Fortunately, wheelspin and camber are not an issue. At Church Auto Test we use a Dynapack dyno, which is a hub model. This means we remove the wheels and bolt the dyno directly to the hubs. This eliminates all the nasty variables like strap down tension, tire pressure, alignment, etc. It allows us to truly see what the engine is doing instead of worrying about the other issues. For tuning purposes, it is, IMO, the best system on the market.

Generally, this dyno reads 5-10 hp higher than a traditional roller dyno like the Dynojet thanks to eliminating the tire issues. However, you cannot directly compare results between the two types of dynos. In fact, you should never compare results between two different types of dynos. Any dyno can be used to compare before and after results on a car, just make sure that you follow proper procedure and control the test variables - which depend on the sort of dyno you're using. A chassis dyno is not a good tool for measuring absolute power, but for measuring power differentials.

That's why I suggested you guys read the dyno section at the Hondata site. :-)

SC

Wholly, don't know if this matters at this point but I did all my dyno runs on an inertial dynojet setup and the same place. You claim 5-10 whp more in comparison. I should be well ahead of the curve then. ha. You made my day Shawn.