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  1. #1
    Registered User AttarixEp's Avatar
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    Informal Transmission Help

    Let me start by saying I am not a transmission guru, I simply have dealt with a lot, done my research, asked a million questions, and learned along the way, but what I have learned will pose as useful. PICTURES WILL BE IN 2ND POST

    For anyone looking to discredit me, this is my current build thread. http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthr...lts&highlight=

    I would also like to credit:
    Jeremy Lookofsky- Drag Cartel - Bad ass racer, owner and customer service rep
    SpeedFactory Racing
    Shaun Quickle- QCP Gear - Transmission builder

    My Ep has pretty basic goal. Drive to a show/race, kick some ass, drive home. My hp goal is 750+. Engine is built, turbo set up complete, time for the most overlooked part of a build. Why? Well you think power directly and you think the engine. When you think of how it gets to the ground, a lot more comes into play. This is strictly MY transmission build and not the "right" way or anything else.

    Being that this is a strip/street car with high hp/tq figures, I wanted something that could take a lot of abuse, but be comfortable to cruise. Instantly decided that 1-4 dogbox was out. Cruising happens between 3-5 gear under normal driving. this meant that I was open to getting a 1/2 PPG dogbox set. 1/2 at the track will take the most abuse in order to get the car moving from a stand still. Dog engagement gears eliminate the use of syncro's which are used when the clutch is depressed in order to spin the next gear up to speed for a smooth engagement. The dogs a basically a crude caveman syncro that no matter what, clutch in, out, will grab the next gear and force it to spin. This means that you will shift slower than the gear can grab. This is harsh, loud, clunky, and perfect for abuse. Not so perfect for cruising.

    I contacted Drag Cartel who is one of the few you can still get PPG gears from. I talked for 2 days straight with Jeremy Lookofsky who is the owner, and driver of their pro-mod civic. We discussed ratios and whether dogs were a good choice or not. Obviously they are a good choice, but let me go over ratios. Ratios are simply put, higher the number-shorter the gear. Short gears mean smaller and rotate faster to get you through revs sooner. They transfer more of the tq to the wheels quicker than a taller gear. Taller gears are better once you are upo to speed and want to continue using your hp to push you along. Keeping in mind that PPG and other companies work for the majority, so their sets and ratios are built around the fact that most of them will end up in the light weight eg/ek chassis. PPG's dog box 1/2 ratio options are 1-(2.61/1.61) 2-(2.61/1.93) Option 1 gives you the same 1st gear, but a taller 2nd gear. This means it will engage at a lower RPM after your shift in order to last slightly longer than option 2. This is great for those lightweight chassis, however with the EP being heavier, even when gutted, I chose option 2 in order to keep the car pushing hard and up to speed.

    Now for the 3/4 set. They won't take AS much abuse, but still, in a car seeing close to 800whp, not a lot of abuse is still a lot of abuse. With this set, I wanted to keep in mind that 3-5 will be used for driving too, and not just track days. Dogs were out, syncro's were in. PPG offers both a straight cut and helical cut gear set. GOOD LUCK finding a helical set from any distributer including direct from PPG. Helical out, I started to look at the PPG straight cuts, almost just as hard to find. After looking at how my ratio chart was with stock 3/4 gears, it seemed like I would need a taller 3/4 set in order to get a good trap speed in 4th gear and not have to shift into 5th. PPG straight cut offers again, 2 options. 1-(1.150/0.909) 2-(1.5/1.20). Stock 3/4 in the EP trans are 1.51/1.147. Both options slightly taller than stock, but still pretty short overall for a heavy chassis. I sat on this for a while because those just didn't sell me on wanting to invest that kind of money on something that isn't perfect. I was dead set on not going full 1-4 dog. I had heard of Albin's and started researching those gear sets. Proven at 1000 hp, problems had been solved since their first batches weren't fairing so well. The Albin's set is a helical cut set using syncro's just like PPG. One look at the best option for ratios, and I was sold. 1.19/0.93. This meant that the 1/2 would get my car up to speed in no time, and the 3/4 would keep it going. Also, I would have a syncro set from 3-5 so I could drive around and not clunk and bang down the street.

    Paired with an MFactory LSD, stock 4.7 final drive, and every seal and bearing replaced with Honda parts, It's basically bullet proof and ready to haul ass while retaining some level of comfort.

    Interesting facts:
    PPG straight cut is designed around the Type S 6 speed. Purchasing this set for a 5 speed means you have to purchase a full oem 2nd gear set in order to use the gear sleeves and syncro's to line up properly in the 5 speed case.

    PPG dogbox and Albin's are based on the 5 speed.

    This build sort of pioneered the way for combining these 2 companies into one transmission, while also mixing dogbox and syncro engagement. This also meant.... Problems. The dogs on the 1/2 gears sit much higher than syncro's would. When the 3/4 set was placed in with the 1/2 set, we had an issue with 2nd and 3rd gear rubbing when a "shift" was performed during inspection. This resulted in waiting over a month for 1 single shim. A shim used in Suzuki outboard marine engines to shim out the propellor shaft. After that set back, there were no further issues with the 2 different sets shifting flawlessly.

    I hope this info and the pics in the next post help with how the different gear sets work in our chassis and transmissions.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Registered User AttarixEp's Avatar
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    Dog engagement gears


    Option 1 PPG dog 1/2


    Option 2 PPG 1/2 (the option I chose)


    Albin's 3rd on PPG dog 2nd


    4th gear clearances


    Full case

  3. #3
    Registered User chrisbtsc's Avatar
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    Dude, badass! I love seeing the engineering side of this stuff. More, more, more.

  4. #4
    2.4L's of Fun! 1GR8EP3's Avatar
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    My hat is off you sir... thats a hell of a combo, and I can only imagine the amount of patience you had while going through all this. One bad ass tranny

  5. #5
    Registered User AttarixEp's Avatar
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    I'm not sponsored. I'm not rich. My biggest goal at the start was power, fun, and retaining reliability. I won't bash the use of forums, or the Internet, sometimes picking up the phone or composing an email to the people who do this for a living, race, build, tune, all that, is the best way to do research. Can't tell you guys how much I searched for people who run PPG or Albins. Let alone both. What these companies don't tell you is that their products aren't made for one specific chassis. And for me, getting a full PPG 1-4 set just wasn't perfect. I know it sounds odd saying PPG gears aren't perfect. They just weren't perfect for my goals.

    It's headaches galore. Then hearing you need a boat engine part, and so on, it's madness. But the time and effort all pays off in the end. I know I have a slow build going (just hit the 3 year mark) for numerous reasons, kids, house, etc. but I not only research each part I buy, I research how it works, how it will be installed, any supporting parts I need, then those get researched. This is literally a no budget build being built on a budget.

    Thanks for the comments and support. Eventually my car will be finished and hopefully it will make the rounds and some can check it out in person.

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