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  1. #1
    Registered User kaotik78's Avatar
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    05 Ep3 w/K20a3 JRSC 3rd, 4th, 5th gear engagement difficulty

    About 110k now on my 05 EP and I've noticed that getting into 3rd, 4th and 5th gear from rpm's over 3k results in resistance almost like lock-out, but if pressed further it will crunch or sometimes grind.

    1. Double clutching seems to make no difference.
    2. CMC is not leaking, fluid is clear and full.
    3. The slave cylinder is also not leaking.
    4. I checked adjustment on the clutch pedal, there isn't one due to it being hydraulic.

    I did a rudimentary clutch test and it holds but does take a few seconds to completely stall the motor out. So I am going to assume that the clutch itself is on it's way out and going into reverse and feathering the clutch, you can hear it and feel it shudder a bit.

    I've read conflicting posts on the internet (go figure) that the CMC may not be disengaging properly and you are trying to change gears when the clutch is not fully disengaged. This could be valid given that the fluid may take time to fully engage the clutch which could coincide with the rpm being at 3k and allowing for the gear change. Double clutching or just pressing the clutch pedal in and waiting for the rpms to drop to around 3k to engage the next gear, then blip the throttle up again then release, while slow may just be the CMC not working correctly.

    My first question is, and I most likely won't know until I pull the transmission completely out and crack the case, is if it is the synchro's or the clutch itself, or even the CMC, though visually all seems to function properly.

    The second question is obviously I am going to need a new clutch and either new flywheel or resurfaced flywheel. I have looked at an Exedy OEM clutch or an EXEDY 08806 clutch with a 8lb flywheel that is stated to have to work with the 08806 clutch. Seeing that I have a JRSC on my k20a3 at 100k, is it worth (subjective) to add this or would an OEM clutch and new OEM flywheel suffice for the maybe 200hp at the wheel difference?

    Had wanted to add a MFactory LSD but I think that's a bit of a waste at this point now.

    Anyone have any suggestions or care to share any similar experiences?

  2. #2
    4 TDs in Single Game usedep3's Avatar
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    is your shifter mechanism and its counterweights (on transmission, shifter cable ends) making contact with anything in the bay? When I work by the transmission/battery tray, sometimes my intake tube shifts and it makes contact with the counterweights
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  3. #3
    Registered User kaotik78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usedep3 View Post
    is your shifter mechanism and its counterweights (on transmission, shifter cable ends) making contact with anything in the bay? When I work by the transmission/battery tray, sometimes my intake tube shifts and it makes contact with the counterweights
    Good point, I double checked that section again but I did not see anything obstructing it at all. I am going to have to check the cultch fork and cmc with someone actuating the clutch pedal, and after that if I am not able to find anything, down and out goes the transmission. Just in time for winter.

  4. #4
    Happy Shoe PRODIUS's Avatar
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    I've a similar issue on my 2002 (K24a2, 150000KM body, 50000km engine):
    - shifting into 3rd at high rpm's often requires double clutching
    - recently noticed that when reversing can also shutter a little
    - original clutch and flywheel

    If/when trans come out will add wavetrack LSD and my boxed JRSC from 6 years ago, lol. Recommendations on a user friendly clutch/flywheel combo appreciated like kaotik78 asks. At 240/220 now, likely low 300 when SC'ed.

  5. #5
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    0. Hi.
    1. My new-to-me EP3 wouldn't shift at all at high RPM when I got it; the clutch springs were coming out of the disc. I've also had bad throwout bearings and also broken clutch fingers impede shifting.
    2. I swapped the 20k-mile dealer clutch out with the Stage 1 Exedy kit with flywheel and think it's great. While the trans was out I discovered it was missing a dowel pin, which explains why the relatively new clutch disc was coming apart.

  6. #6
    Registered User kaotik78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by feralcomp View Post
    0. Hi.
    1. My new-to-me EP3 wouldn't shift at all at high RPM when I got it; the clutch springs were coming out of the disc. I've also had bad throwout bearings and also broken clutch fingers impede shifting.
    2. I swapped the 20k-mile dealer clutch out with the Stage 1 Exedy kit with flywheel and think it's great. While the trans was out I discovered it was missing a dowel pin, which explains why the relatively new clutch disc was coming apart.
    Quick update, not much to report other than testing with the car on a flat surface with the ebrake off, I tested for clutch drag, and that came up negative as well, was hoping it would be something other than synchros.

    I'm able to shift gears still but I have to triple clutch or quad, instead of double clutching at higher rpms in order to get around gear change "lockout" which would indicate to me the synchros are worn out since engaging and disengaging the clutch multiple times between gear changes is working to slow the gears down to the point that the gears can be engaged, essentially I'm using my clutch as a synchro.


    All things point to synchro's at this point and seeing that it's in the teens, temperature wise, I have to just take it easy till warmer weather starts up again to get the transmission out of the car.

    Does anyone know off hand if synchrotech still provides rebuilt EP3 transmissions or is it a service in which you have to ship your transmission to them?

  7. #7
    0EM xEcuTi0n Ba82Ep3's Avatar
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    Where do i start. LOL

    Some of the conditions you describe usually affect 1-2 shifts primarily as the clutch wears, or all gears the same. Odds are you are definitely due a new clutch if youre at 110k on the original.

    You also need to consider wear on the pressure plate spring fingers that contact the throw out bearing (and the wear in the bearing too). What is inches of movement at the pedal is far less at the pressure/friction plate. Wear and increased tolerances will make your clutch less likely to properly work for this very reason.

    I have recently started slipping in 4th gear (aggressive up shifts and WOT), and my "k20a3" made just shy of 230whp on its last dyno testing. The setup currently has 77k miles. I was also on an OEM Civic clutch with a used OEM flywheel that was turned at a machine shop (which was reportedly a big no-no). If the fly hadnt been turned, maybe my clutch wouldnt be slipping by now... but considering my abuse i am more than content that it almost reached 80k.

    With that said... there isnt much you can throw at a stock OEM unit... short of a turbo or beefy k24... that it cant handle.

    As far as 3-5th gears are concerned. 1 and 2 are triple cone synchro. 3-5 have one less cone. If youre going to invest in a stock OEM trans, make it one with at least 1-4 being triple cone. Personally, i sourced an 02 CTR trans and rebuilt it, and all 6 gears are triple cone synchro. Yes its a little more money up front but i havent regretted it every single time i rip through the gears...

    As far as replacement synchros... OEM is pretty much the way to go. I am still not impressed with Synchrotechs quality when placed side by side with OEM. USEDEP3 will probably remember my side by side comparisons of the two lol Maybe im just a picky bastard.

    My suggestion would be to source a decent 07+Civic SI trans. It comes with an excellent LSD. Take it apart and replace whats questionable on the main and countershafts. Check the forks for wear and tear and replace if needed. Decide on your clutch/flywheel setup. Plan for a long weekend build. Pull the trans from the EP, open it and gut it (install new bearings and seals)... take the rebuilt 07 SI main and counter shafts and install them in the EP case. Take the two shift shaft assemblies and the parts off of the 07 SI assy will fit on the EP assy and allow 6 speed control with mechanical lockout (no need to worry about the solenoid). Seal it and close it up and install it. If you plan on keeping the EP... or at least stay in the K series family like i did (even after i got rid of my EP), the trans will be an investment you wont regret.

    Im always around for trans help. I dont spend a lot of time on EPHatch cause i dont sit behind a keyboard like i used to, but arrangements can always be made if you need advice or help!

    - Dave W

  8. #8
    Registered User kaotik78's Avatar
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    I'm now in the process of getting a new clutch installed as the gear changes became more and more difficult and even with the clutch pressed in, you could hear or feel grinding of gears, indicating to me that something wasn't completely disengaged.

    I did come across this link and I'm going to try to see if this is possible first before I opt to drop the entire transmission. Seeing that it's around 7 degrees F, I'll have to do this in stages. Here is the video I came across that shows a clutch removal and install on a 2004 Acura TSX. There looks to be enough room to move our transmission out of the way, wondering if anyone else has tried this method instead of dropping the sub frame entirely.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD6SeIsZRcs

  9. #9
    Registered User kaotik78's Avatar
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    Hey all,

    Been taking my car apart little by little in the winter months. I've had issues going into certain gears at higher speeds as you can see from my previous posts.

    My initial thought was that it's synchros as the clutch still held once it was able to get into gear but shifts were very difficult.

    Once I pulled the blower off (again) and got the subframe out and the transmission dropped, in-between temps of 19 and 9 degrees out in my garage ;) , this is what I discovered.

    So far so good



    Looked good at first I thought so my initial thoughts about synchro's seemed to be right, or so I thought till I took the clutch apart completely and saw this.



    So my thoughts on this are that my synchro's are most likely fine and that the spring on the clutch was causing my gear selection issues.

    Anyone else come across this issue?

    I'm also debating on adding an Exeddy lightweight flywheel and clutch combo along with replacing the water pump as well and thermostat since I've got everything apart, and possibly a LSD but I'm 50/50 on this as I don't track and it's just a fun commuter now.

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