04 Suspension Part II

[LannyM]

There was a discussion regarding changes in the 04 suspension, with many people feeling that the car sits lower than the 02/03 MYs.

I took some pics today of an 04 on a local dealer's lot, and while it certainly appears to sit lower at first glance, measurements and a comparison to my 03 show it is not lower; if anything, it sits a little higher.

Unfortunatley, the 04 is black, so the pics of wheelwell gap do not really show up. I can tell you that the car appears to have much less gap than my 03. But, when I did some measurements, I found the following:


Center of wheel to fender Ground to fender
New 04 14.5" 26"
My 03 14.5" 25.75"


Now, the other thing I found is that the 04 tires measure more than than an inch taller than the 03s. If you do the math, you'll find that they should only be about 3/4" larger, but they are closer to 1.25". Many specs show vast differences in diameter and width between same size tires, and these 04 tires are clearly larger than what they are *supposed* to measure.

Someone in the old thread had said that they installed an 04 suspension on their 02, and that it dropped the car around an inch. I e-mailed him to try and get some pics of his install, and he e-mailed me back last Friday that he would send me them, but I haven't got them yet. If I do, I'll post them in this thread.

Conclusion: If I put tires that are 1.2" taller on my car, my overall height should go up about .6", but the 04 is not much taller than my car, suggesting that the 04 suspension is lower. However, if I were to lower my car, the distance between the fender and the center of the wheel should be smaller, and that is not the case, which suggests the 04 suspension is not lower.

So I really have no idea:).....

[trk]

Originally posted by LannyM
There was a discussion regarding changes in the 04 suspension, with many people feeling that the car sits lower than the 02/03 MYs.

I took some pics today of an 04 on a local dealer's lot, and while it certainly appears to sit lower at first glance, measurements and a comparison to my 03 show it is not lower; if anything, it sits a little higher.

Unfortunatley, the 04 is black, so the pics of wheelwell gap do not really show up. I can tell you that the car appears to have much less gap than my 03. But, when I did some measurements, I found the following:


Center of wheel to fender Ground to fender
New 04 14.5" 26"
My 03 14.5" 25.75"


Now, the other thing I found is that the 04 tires measure more than than an inch taller than the 03s. If you do the math, you'll find that they should only be about 3/4" larger, but they are closer to 1.25". Many specs show vast differences in diameter and width between same size tires, and these 04 tires are clearly larger than what they are *supposed* to measure.

Someone in the old thread had said that they installed an 04 suspension on their 02, and that it dropped the car around an inch. I e-mailed him to try and get some pics of his install, and he e-mailed me back last Friday that he would send me them, but I haven't got them yet. If I do, I'll post them in this thread.

Conclusion: If I put tires that are 1.2" taller on my car, my overall height should go up about .6", but the 04 is not much taller than my car, suggesting that the 04 suspension is lower. However, if I were to lower my car, the distance between the fender and the center of the wheel should be smaller, and that is not the case, which suggests the 04 suspension is not lower.

So I really have no idea:).....

either way, they still both really need to be dropped

[bao_pay]

Originally posted by trk
either way, they still both really need to be dropped

nuff said!

[LannyM]

either way, they still both really need to be dropped

Well, frankly, I'm not one to make major changes to my car's suspension. I think the car handles really well, and it also has great ride quality. I know from riding in some of my friend's cars that while I can certainly improve roadholding and body roll by making the car stiffer/lower, I will also pay a penalty in ride comfort, as well as probably creating odd noises/creaks etc, and that's just not what I'm looking for.

That being said, the 02/03s look positively foolish in stock form. There is literally enough wheel gap to put my entire fist in the wheelwell. The 04 looks SO MUCH better in that regard. There's about a 3 finger gap, and I would LOVE my car to look like that, but still ride like stock. That is actually the purpose of this thread; I'm trying to figure out what changes Honda has done to achieve this.

So far, I've got a set of 16" HFP rims, and I'm going to run the 205/55/16s on them. I'd like to get a set of the HFP struts/springs as well, which should leave the car with less gap than a stock 04 while keeping a decent ride. Problem is, those are really hard to find. If I could achieve my goals with the stock 04 suspension, I should be able to get a set of those from any of the dozens of people who opt for coilovers/Mugen/HFP/etc...

[downhil]

why bother with all the overpriced hfp stuff. just buy some of the nice full coilover setups....kw, tein, mugen, and soon eibach.

[K20A3Si]

Originally posted by downhil
why bother with all the overpriced hfp stuff. just buy some of the nice full coilover setups....kw, tein, mugen, and soon eibach.

exactly

[gr33nnugz]

Originally posted by trk
either way, they still both really need to be dropped

couldnt have said it better

[LannyM]

why bother with all the overpriced hfp stuff. just buy some of the nice full coilover setups....

Like I said before....I'm not looking to turn my Si into a stiff riding track/autocross machine. It's a daily driver, and as such, it's already got the ride/handling that I'm looking for. I want my car to be a little lower, but not at the expense of reduced ride quality.

The HFP struts/springs would already be on my car if I could find a set. They retail for $800, which is less than any of the stuff you mentioned, and that's for OEM quality gear that is actually designed for our cars. To quote one review of the HFP package:

"The net effect of what would seem to be rather modest changes is a profound improvement in handling. Body roll is dramatically reduced. Oh, its still there which shouldn't be a surprise since the swaybars remain stock. But its much more manageable and doesn't get in the way of fast cornering. Understeer is also banished from normal driving, only reappearing when you are cornering at very high speeds, and even then its quite benign. Overall grip levels have shot through the roof - both in lateral and longitudinal acceleration. We recorded dramatically improved braking numbers despite no changes in brake hardware. As we've said before about many of Honda's OEM tire fitments and braking numbers - "Its the tires stupid!"...overall balance of the car is really quite nice. You can really push it into a hard corner with great confidence in the chassis. It does what you ask, with solid turn in and excellent mid-corner stability. Bumpy turns are no problem at all, especially compared to some of the overly stiff aftermarket setups available that are suitable for billiard table smooth racetracks only....In fact, we'll go so far as to say that the suspension package on this car should be the defacto choice for any enthusiast who wants to liven up his street ride. Yes, some might want it lower, but really, you'll be hard pressed to better this package for street use with your typical mix and match suspension upgrades."

So, for me to spend more money, get something that wasn't designed for my car, and make my car ride stiffer than I would want it to...

The Mugen suspension would be my first and only aftermarket choice, but even that is probably going beyond what I am looking for in terms of retaining stock-like ride quality.

[icegrill]

Originally posted by LannyM
Like I said before....I'm not looking to turn my Si into a stiff riding track/autocross machine. It's a daily driver, and as such, it's already got the ride/handling that I'm looking for. I want my car to be a little lower, but not at the expense of reduced ride quality.

The HFP struts/springs would already be on my car if I could find a set. They retail for $800, which is less than any of the stuff you mentioned, and that's for OEM quality gear that is actually designed for our cars. To quote one review of the HFP package:

"The net effect of what would seem to be rather modest changes is a profound improvement in handling. Body roll is dramatically reduced. Oh, its still there which shouldn't be a surprise since the swaybars remain stock. But its much more manageable and doesn't get in the way of fast cornering. Understeer is also banished from normal driving, only reappearing when you are cornering at very high speeds, and even then its quite benign. Overall grip levels have shot through the roof - both in lateral and longitudinal acceleration. We recorded dramatically improved braking numbers despite no changes in brake hardware. As we've said before about many of Honda's OEM tire fitments and braking numbers - "Its the tires stupid!"...overall balance of the car is really quite nice. You can really push it into a hard corner with great confidence in the chassis. It does what you ask, with solid turn in and excellent mid-corner stability. Bumpy turns are no problem at all, especially compared to some of the overly stiff aftermarket setups available that are suitable for billiard table smooth racetracks only....In fact, we'll go so far as to say that the suspension package on this car should be the defacto choice for any enthusiast who wants to liven up his street ride. Yes, some might want it lower, but really, you'll be hard pressed to better this package for street use with your typical mix and match suspension upgrades."

So, for me to spend more money, get something that wasn't designed for my car, and make my car ride stiffer than I would want it to...

The Mugen suspension would be my first and only aftermarket choice, but even that is probably going beyond what I am looking for in terms of retaining stock-like ride quality.

I completely agree with you, I love the way the car handles and rides in stock form it's just got too much damn wheel gap. It really get's annoying when all people can reply with is "drop that bitch" or "who cares it needs to be dropped" those are just worthless coments. Yeah we fucking know it looks better lowered who doesn't? But unlike some of you I've previously owned a lowered civic with skunk2/tockico setup for four years and it eventually led to the demise of the car. Suspension is critical to the longevity of a car in terms of rattles and related componets wearing out. In four years I don't want my car to sound like some ghetto lowered piece of shit that although dropped like it's hot, sounds like it's ready to fall apart on the next bump. I'll save for the mugen kit as well or the hfp it's released to the public, but I'll take the gap any day over all the shit that goes along with a cheaply lowered car.

[phatfreeza]

oooh i like the side by side pic... shows how puny the stock 15's really are!!!