Hasbro's Build Journal

[Hasbro]

In terms of dropping weight, I wonder if it is possible to replace the glass of the sunroof with a carbon fiber panel instead.

I have seen sunroom plugs for our cars, but I'm looking to replace just the glass part so that I can retain the sunroof functionality. Assuming I cut a piece of carbon fiber that's the exact same shape and size as the OEM, is this even possible with our cars?

Some guy here made a cf panel and I believe he wanted around $400.00. No thanks. I thought that taking two thin sheets of clear or colored plastic and gluing them in a curved mold would work. Some silicone sealer around the edge and a couple of metal bars inside for support. GrassRootsMotorsports used a piece of sheet metal a little larger than the hole and glued/riveted it on.

With the three rearward windows and the sunroof you can save 55 lbs. I also want to do fixed door windows using magnet strips. And a rear uncurved hatch similar to an old Rabbit. And an inboard bumper. That's about a total of -85 lbs. removed from important areas.

A full poly kit in the rear will actually help with the crispness of turn in, it'll feel much much better, and a 600 pound spring is about the limit for the yellow's and if you find it rolls too much just get a bigger bar lol

Hey, Bwek, some winter you're having! I spoke with Bill at True Choice and he said as high as 700 lbs. for the rear DC5 8010-1050Sport and about 600 for the front 8610 1415Sport. And that the 600 would be better than 700. I'm calling Koni tomorrow to double check. I'll wager even 600 will be rough. Yeah, I need a triple adjustable bar, too. And there's no escaping the need for even bigger springs and better coilovers down the road.

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Still can't find my frigging camera although it's a good excuse not to do much. After next week I'll have time to put the EP on blocks for about four days and take some frustration out on the poor thing. Need to find some good bushings for the rear lower struts.

In spite of the low spring weights currently on board, I'm going to drop about another 1/4" on the suspension in order to shape the flares a bit better and do some more alignment tweaking. Stick with smooth corners until the bigger springs, lol. Thinking of -2.7f/-3r camber, and toe for now -1/8" in front and 0 rear. Play with my Flyn' Miata hub stands and digital camber thingy. I'm still not sure how to use the toe and caster parts on it.

Also, can't seem to get this out of my head; putting 245/35/17s in the rear, same as the front. I'm almost sure the inner and outer fenders would have to be cut and welded. It's more of a visual thing than handling. Nothing like making life more difficult than it needs to be. We'll
see.

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Spoke with a Koni guy this morning. Wouldn't commit to any specific numbers but I had the same feeling as from True Choice; 700 is starting to see a reduction in control and that 600 is the best max spring.

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This is a good read on an innovative track EP, good suspension info;

http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthr...-Ep3-Track-Car

[Hasbro]

Some good news about big springs for the Koni Sports. I was resolved to settle for 450/600 until the guy below responded to a thread I started on GRM. That's all I needed to read!!! Time to play with the suspension calculator again ;

In my EP3 I'm on RSX revalved Koni Yellows for 550# front and 1200# rear 6" eibach ERS springs. I used to run 300# front and 750# rear on a set of factory valved RSX yellows and they were fine, I still have them as back-ups, the seals aren't leaky, they still adjust and that was after 1.5 years 15,000miles of street and autox use. I remember talking to some of the Koni guys and they said because of the rear suspension geometry of the EP3/DC5 platform that they could handle some heavy spring rates and still be ok and not risk destroying the shocks. I changed to the heavier weights when I converted the EP3 to full slicks and knew the race weight.

*I am assuming you are talking about a EP3, if you aren't please ignore all this useless information.

GRM thread, fwiw;

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/for...t/77916/page1/


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New rates... either 500/750 or, most likely, 550/750.




A pretty typical roll but you don't see them on EPs. Why the f#$% not? These are, I believe, 275/35/15 slicks and I want them. There are five pics.

[Hasbro]

Out Driving

2:30 am and it's time for a drive. I don't like the cold asphalt but it's only 46* so it could be worse. Trying the stickies out on 31/33 psi. Want to see how the low pressure heats the tread up in the cold.

3:30, what a blast. I have a new test area that is about 1 1/4 miles, made up of two frontage roads, and is good for the 60-80 mph range, a speed range that has been hard to find. Faster than an autox, slower than a track by a little due to common sense. New, nicely banked curves, smooth asphalt, and it works as a circle. Anyway , the tires were a blast and I chickened out before they did. The suspension was pretty sweet, much happier than on a autox turn due to the too soft suspension. Front and rear tires were talking to me at the same time at the near limit of adhesion. Some of you know what I mean. The balance was just lovely, thank you.

Happy camper but there is more happiness to be found. There is so much more to improve upon that I haven't wanted to drive the EP until doing a few tweaks that will happen in about a week. But tonight brought back the smile. Even now, it is a sweet cornering little thing.

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IMPORTANT
Rear Suspension Thoughts

I've been meaning to talk about the rear suspension. Since the autox school a couple of months ago, I've been thinking about the rear's weaknesses. While there, the EP experienced a bunch of weaknesses because I didn't tweak as I was supposed to because of feeling crappy at the time. A few weeks perusing old threads regarding the rear suspension tied it all together.

- I now know in mid turn, the suspension geometry throws in a little lift, especially with a softer spring allowing too much travel, with the result being the geometry getting kwerky due to roll center etc. I think I experienced this but there were other contributors.

- For the way I have the alignment the rear camber should have been at least -3. Next week the rears will be -3, front -2.7 for street.

- As mentioned, the suspension is too soft.

- The lower damper bushing needs to be a well made harder bushing the help prevent binding, which distorts suspension geometry right when it shouldn't. No solid sphericals, too much for the street. Maybe later. My layman's assumption is the connecting points don't hold the correct angles during more extreme travel and they bind, quite a bit at the bottom bushing, which is one of the connecting points. They just don't fit right at certain angles.

- The rake was too much because I didn't drop the rear 1/2". Next week the rear will be 3/4" lower than the height two months ago and the front 1/4" lower. Which is only a 1" drop. I screwed up thinking the stock height was higher than it is and it wasn't as low as I thought it was. Read this journal to learn what not to do.

- Edit; forgot this one. Two different types of tires on 40* windy weather must have been a part of it. Sitting around between each run just made it worse

One of the best ways to deal with the rear suspension is make it so it isn't used as much. Meaning less travel. Meaning stiffer springs so the bad angles aren't allowed to happen. Stiffer springs have a trade off as the softest useable spring allows for better adhesion (sort of) but, oh well, that's life. Go get an engineer to build a nice custon rear suspension or use heavy springs.

Hope this helps someone. I've never seen all this stuff put together and they all need to be addressed.

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If the alignment gets done, the 2/26 autox would be a good time to test run. Next week we will be in the 80s so the 26th may be just as warm.

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2/16, 2015 Typr R RRRrrracer





http://www.epcivic.com/index.php?/to...w-type-r-idea/


Cleaning garage

Have spent 10 or 12 hrs. so far cleaning and organizing the garage. Four years of neglect - it's hard to get motivated fixing up a rented garage/house. Should take about 3 more hours. Did not find my camera as hoped but it's around here somewhere. Damnit.

12/18

Garage feels so good! Put a couple of office chairs on a small area rug for just hanging around and it's nice and comfy.

Behind schedule, need to get some supplies today to fully utilize the hub stands for a more complete alignment or the autox this weekend is out.

[USAF EP3]

Some good news about big springs for the Koni Sports. I was resolved to settle for 450/600 until the guy below responded to a thread I started on GRM. That's all I needed to read!!! Time to play with the suspension calculator again ;

In my EP3 I'm on RSX revalved Koni Yellows for 550# front and 1200# rear 6" eibach ERS springs. I used to run 300# front and 750# rear on a set of factory valved RSX yellows and they were fine, I still have them as back-ups, the seals aren't leaky, they still adjust and that was after 1.5 years 15,000miles of street and autox use. I remember talking to some of the Koni guys and they said because of the rear suspension geometry of the EP3/DC5 platform that they could handle some heavy spring rates and still be ok and not risk destroying the shocks. I changed to the heavier weights when I converted the EP3 to full slicks and knew the race weight.

*I am assuming you are talking about a EP3, if you aren't please ignore all this useless information.

GRM thread, fwiw;

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/for...t/77916/page1/


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New rates... either 500/750 or, most likely, 550/750.




A pretty typical roll but you don't see them on EPs. Why the f#$% not? These are, I believe, 275/35/15 slicks and I want them. There are five pics.

I just bought an Eastwood fender roller and I"ll be doing this to my car soon.

Go check out the wheel and tire thread, I posted updated on my new wheel setup. The wider and taller tires fit a LOT better than I expected and I'll only need to roll the fenders to get them to clear during suspension compression.

Also, with all the positive caster I have gained with my mods, I'll have more dynamic camber while turning so they will clear the fender wells that much better. Now all that's left is a stiffer coilover setup.

I love reading your journal I always leave the thread feeling enlightened by your intelligence. Keep this up Hasbro! If you keep doing this, I might just start donating money to you to help you build your car (I know you've mentioned your money situation before).

[Hasbro]

Ahhh, man, thanks for the kind words. Seriously. I know I ramble and blather a lot. Money is so tight right now and it's frustrating to have concepts and not be able to apply them. Hanging in there.

Oh, man, your own Eastwood! And, yes, I saw your new set up, which must be exciting. The Kumhos are great tires. You do have to get the feel for them as they don't relay as much info back to you, such as changes in sound at traction limits. The feel can be vague at first until you can develop an intuitive feel and they need a couple of miles to warm up - they can bite you when cold. They love the heat and don't really get greasy when hot. They are a couple of ticks behind the Rivals and ZIIs and Hankooks but so is everything else and the difference isn't apparent on the street.

Now about your build thread..... we all can learn and benefit from it.......



Again, thank you, USAF.

[USAF EP3]

Ahhh, man, thanks for the kind words. Seriously. I know I ramble and blather a lot. Money is so tight right now and it's frustrating to have concepts and not be able to apply them. Hanging in there.

Oh, man, your own Eastwood! And, yes, I saw your new set up, which must be exciting. The Kumhos are great tires. You do have to get the feel for them as they don't relay as much info back to you, such as changes in sound at traction limits. The feel can be vague at first until you can develop an intuitive feel and they need a couple of miles to warm up - they can bite you when cold. They love the heat and don't really get greasy when hot. They are a couple of ticks behind the Rivals and ZIIs and Hankooks but so is everything else and the difference isn't apparent on the street.

Now about your build thread..... we all can learn and benefit from it.......



Again, thank you, USAF.

Ah man, don't flatter me, I really don't deserve it! I really have no ingenuity behind what I do with my car. About 99% of what I mod is because of what I read and gather from everyone that has had success with the mod I'm performing.

Back to tires, I'm glad to hear that the Kumho are good performers. If that sounds good get ready for this: I bought another set of tires; Nitto NT01's 225-45-17. They are going on my 05-06 DC5-S wheels, widest I can fit on a 7" rim width. Those are going to be my serious track tire, the Kumho's I want to keep as a daily/casual auto-x tire.

As for my build thread...it leaves much to be desired. I really need to spend an entire day to take pictures and update that fossilized thread, lol.

[Hasbro]

Ah man, don't flatter me, I really don't deserve it! I really have no ingenuity behind what I do with my car. About 99% of what I mod is because of what I read and gather from everyone that has had success with the mod I'm performing.

Back to tires, I'm glad to hear that the Kumho are good performers. If that sounds good get ready for this: I bought another set of tires; Nitto NT01's 225-45-17. They are going on my 05-06 DC5-S wheels, widest I can fit on a 7" rim width. Those are going to be my serious track tire, the Kumho's I want to keep as a daily/casual auto-x tire.

As for my build thread...it leaves much to be desired. I really need to spend an entire day to take pictures and update that fossilized thread, lol.

Not flattery. My eyes glaze over when you and some others go off on motor intricacies.

Excellent choice! My interpretation; sort of a modern RA1. A real track tire with some positive road traits. Not as long lived but it makes up for that on the track. The bottom of the rung of the R Comps but a great tire, non the less. Not cheap but a very good bang for your buck. Not a slick but tons of fun and lasts longer. Once you've had a tire with a low slip angle, you're hooked - point and shoot, and it goes where you pointed it. A much needed steering feel for our not so nice steering. Nitto is owned by Toyo, another plus. If I could afford these tires so I didn't care about the short tread life and they had my sizes, I would run them on the street and love the hell out of them.

You could just start a new second chapter build. Much easier. I'm doing this hopefully soon.

2/22; picked up; some new orange twine this morning for toe alignment, Harbour Frieight body hammer kit and laser level (for leveling floor). Ten Lowe's 18"x18" vinyl tiles for leveling garage floor. Ready to rock and roll - after a nap. 3 hrs of sleep last night.

Think I'll just pull the plastic rear bumper off instead of cutting it and paint the exposed body panels a satin or flat black. Instead of cutting the bottom half off. Then the bumper can be sold. That should suffice for a while before making a new bumper.

2/23; not going to autox tomorrow. I didn't get enough done today. But it's kind of a relief - the idea of spending the money and more than half the day to get in four runs has never thrilled me. Maybe next month. -----> I really want to push the set up for a few weeks, tweeking it along the way. Maybe a few "corner till failure" runs. -----> Then work towards the bigger springs, which will then be the time to really push the corners HARD. ------> Then the Fortune Auto 510s --------> etc..

Leveling Floor, arghh!
The garage floor is in four sections, each tire sits on a different poured section and they actually drain towards the interior of the house instead of out the garage door! Unbelievable. I have where the four tires will sit pretty even now. The laser level is ok but can't find my string level, which would help a lot. Tomorrow I'm going to take my time and do everything right, make a day of it and have fun. I really want to do a DIY home alignment but maybe next time I'll have it down better (and hopefully will have found the camera!).

2/24, The Greatest Car That Never Was

I'm repeating myself here but probably my favorite all time car is the Jaguar XJ13. I saw a kit version on a kit car magazine cover (still have it) years ago and the obsession started. The one off car was destroyed while being tested due to a wheel breaking at a very high speed and the project was dropped. It probably would have annihilated the Ferraris, GT40s, and Cobras* of it's day. There really isn't a bad angle to the car. Just before dropping my job and life to care for the bro I had tracked down the guy that bought all the rights, body molds, etc. of the car and I was working towards developing one. I wanted a modern V12 and suspension but it was basically the same car. It would have taken about 65K and a bazillion hours to pull it off but it would have been a project and keeper for life. 600whp, modern suspension, about 2200 lbs., and gorgeous - more so with better fitting modern tires. Perfection. Ahh well.


No aero downforce, just flow efficiency. Makes me want to touch myself.






Turn up the volume

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMP7fW7tj3w



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9FoExi1yxI

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Oops, almost forgot! Lowered suspension 1/4" front, 3/4" rear.

Lowering Konis/GNC

- Dropped front and rear to 5 1/2",
- Front camber - 2.6, rear - 2.9 approx.
- Dropped without adjusting camber but that, of course, increased negative camber. Will increase to -2.7 front, -3.0 rear when the alignment is done, which will be after I drive around a bit to get a feel for the new height and camber but not so long so that the toe messes up the tires. Soon.

Due to timing, haven't been able to test yet. Can't wait!

Details to remember when Lowering Konis/GNC

1. Be sure to hold GNC threads when turning the lowering knuckle thingy.
2. One full turn of knuckle is 1/8".
3. Check and adjust tire psi before lowering.
4. If you measure heights before all corners are lowered they will not read accurately. Before lowering the final tire, right rear, the left front measured 1/8" too low and the left rear measure 1/4" too high.
5. Measure every tire each time each corner is lowered and try to figure out why they are measuring incorrectly. It helps to understand weight displacement better, I think.

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Ok, front suspension settled a tad too much, not sure what I did incorrectly. Fronts are at 5 3/8", rears 5 1/2". Was shooting for 5 1/2 all around. I'm going to raise the fronts to 5 5/8", rears 5 3/4. I scraped on all four corners at least once, more in the rear. No surprise with the 336/515 springs and extreme negative camber. It was annoying to drive but it really showed the need for more spring. Very good experience.

Evan was talking to me about using as much spring up front on the Koni as if it were more important than an exact balance front and rear, a good idea to have in my head while zipping around today. I feel pretty confident that doubling the rear spring weight is a no brainer, maybe 550+ front, 1000 - 1100 rear as the final springs on the Fortune Auto coilovers. Maybe bigger in the rear if I go with equally wide rear tires. But first come the 550/750s.

Something else just didn't feel right and unfortunately doing the extra camber and lowering at the same time makes it even harder to pinpoint. I'm thinking that Scott's claim that stock height is 6 1/2" might not be correct by my EP, thinking 6 3/4" is closer. So there's the possibility that I'm feeling the results of too low without some geometry correction.

- too little spring
- geometry, rcas, upper rear arm spacer? size?
- toe unknown, looks a bit extreme - too out in front, too in in rear
- other suggestions?

More fodder for fuel. I love the whole process!

[Hasbro]

........and the magnificent Lotus 23B


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voelMATidc0



Midnight Moves

Just had a great 30 minutes of hard cornering. Not a soul around. All under 40 mph, cornering as hard as the shrieks of metal, fender liners, and rubber would allow. I'll raise all corners 1/4" but hate to do it, the grip felt so good.

Simple but interesting;
- front springs felt more inadequate over dips. Heavier front.
- rear springs felt more inadequate during hard smooth corners, especially with -3 rear camber.
- camber was amazing. In my"spinout" area tires held SO much better than before.

Finally getting to point where I feel confident in tuning suspension without using hertz. Finally getting the feel.

If a woman's prerogative is that she can change her mind, mine is I can vacillate. Spring change;

In the interest of economy, I'll take the rear 6" 515lb. Eibachs and put them up front. That saves a couple hundred bucks. Hope the 6" will be tall enough. Find some 6" 750lb. for rear. That'll hold me for a year or so. Oh, and forget getting Hardrace rear damper bushings and get the cheaper poly. Save for the next coilovers.


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2/26; Alignment


All I have for photos is an old cell and believe these are fromlast night or another night (not sure, they're all bad) and are pretty worthless. Accept my apology and move on. I set it up tonight to make it easier starting out tomorrow. Anyway, I'll spend a couple of hours on the rear only, poke around, try not mess anything up. Oh, do toe, also.








Not saying I like it (Yes, I am), but it's worth looking at, it certainly is aggressive, a little too flashy for me, needs more sleeper;



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Alignment Flavor of the Day, 3/1;

Height
Front 5 3/8+" left, 5 3/8" right
Rear 5 11/16, 5 11/16

Camber
Front -2.3 l, 2.1 r
Rear -3, -2.7 (to anyone not aware, more camber in rear is due to using the Andy Hollis approach - NOT because I want to do some effing flush/stance bullshit! Fine for some , not for me. )

Comparing different cambers and also trying to induce understeer to put Toyos to the test just to know their limits better but couldn't find the opportunity. Both sides felt very nice but left was better. New height much quieter, will be more quiet lifting front a little, feels surprisingly good considering soft springs, height change has transformed feel. Corners surprisingly well considering the soft springs. < Requires smooth turning.

To Do Next;

- raise front 1/8 l, 3/16 r
- raise rears 1/8"
- camber front to all -2 .7, rear to all -3.0
- toe -1/16, o, caster at least 3* currently, not sure
- rear damper bushings
- after springs (515/750), drop all corners 1/4-1/2"
- try to get away from suspension work for a year or so.
- work on body, weight, etc.
- maybe next go RA1 245/45/16 rears (instead of buying 4 17" wheels and tires) for economic reasons - plus I do love them. Also, Andy Hollis did same.

I guess it's about a 3/4-1+" drop. All of the fenders are pulled differently so the fits are all different but the two rears are less than a finger so that's at least an inch? Not sure.




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3/8

Nothing much. From jacking up to jacking down it takes about 40-50 minutes to adjust rear height and camber if I rush, about the same to do the front height, little less. I would much rather putter and go slower.

Cornering is immediately and noticeably better, really fun to drive.

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I haven't noticed any excessive tire wear so far - wonder if -2.7/-3.0 will start showing.

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More Swiss Hillclimb video. This is a great study for comparing many different awesome cars taking the same corners. Love it!

http://www.wrchd.com/best-swiss-hill...-always-limit/

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3/10

Finally broke down and bought a 72" level to get the stupid garage level. 11 bucks at Harbour Freight, lol. Now I get to pull everything apart again.

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3/11

Getting the floor even has been really hard. The front right is over 3/4" lower than the left rear. Shite. Even after leveling, I get different readings between pulling the EP in front end first or rear first. I finally just had to compromise between the two different readings. All corners go up, one as little as 1/16", another as high as 7/16" and the other two in between. It's really just a learning experience but this change will hold me until the new springs. I'll also finalize the rear camber and toe and do the front camber another time. I just don't like screwing with the front bolts and I'm not touching the camber/caster plates. I need to read up on camber bolts as I seem to be creating more work than is necessary and they just aren't fun to mess with.

The only way I can see getting the four corners even is with LongAcre leveling plates, which are expensive. Another way would be to pour an even floor or four square areas for the tires. That's not gonna happen either with a rental house.

I once built an extra garage addition onto a house I had in Atlanta and poured a final layer on the pad to get it even but never used it. I got the bright idea to get married and moved to frickin' Boca Raton. Idiot. Also sold my Turbo Esprit and F 250. Idiot, idiot.

[sam10k]

Nice build.
What is the different between traditional camber setting and Andy Hollis's suggestion setting?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hasbro]

Nice build.
What is the different between traditional camber setting and Andy Hollis's suggestion setting?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks, Sam.

Traditionally, front wheel drive performance alignments are set up with more camber in the front while Andy set his up for more rear camber. He won five national championships with this approach. There is a bit more to it as he also used four different weight springs and weighed front left to rear left to an equal percentage of front right to rear right, so emulating it requires lots of corner weighing. I am still a ways from the eqivalent with the EP but Andy approved of what I want to do, just need mo money for springs and scales and same sized front and rear tires. This alignment is good for street and autox but is a bit more of a hassle for most, understandably. Plus, once it breaks loose..... The more extreme your suspension/alignment, the more catastrophic the adhesion loss is when it goes.

Andy; "..Further, the rear of the car is designed to have enough grip that it will NOT let go in a turn no matter what we do with the front. This allows us to hammer the car through elements with no fear of the rear. It also allows us to optimize the front grip without negative impact on the rear.."

Oh, forgot, it also requires different camber on all four wheels, which I have tried but currently my set up is -3 both rears, -2.7 fronts until I can do the four different springs and his percentage set up. I tried to compensate by raising the left sides a little higher but have evened all corners for the time being. It sticks very well but will stick much better when completed.

I just recently learned that the white 91 Civic at my local autox is Andy's former car. Couldn't believe it,of all the tracks in the country, it's here! I will be pestering the new owner this weekend!

[monjarassi]

Lots and lots of good info on here

[Hasbro]

Lots and lots of good info on here

Thanks, Monji. Now get off the computer and finish your motor's 500 mile break-in, I wanna see some videos. Just be careful not to break anything.

[Ba82Ep3]

Yep yep... love reading the midnight thoughts : )

[Hasbro]

Just rambling;

- Need to do a compilation of tire threads that I peruse through. Stick them on post #6..A couple are over 50 pages and go back 3 or 4 years but the historical chronology is very important if you don't have a life or just dig tires.

- My tire interests almost always pertain to tires in the UTQG range of 100 to 200 - Extreme Summers or tires that are still street legal and semi practical but maybe not legal for SCCA ST, etc. Tires that are the best for our car's handling without being pure track. Track days, street, autox. DOT Radials, let's stay away from cantilevered and non cantilevered slicks, they only complicate the topic but lets state that cantilevered slicks also like a wide rim.

- Interesting to note that a handling tire should be paired with a wheel that is at least as wide as the tread but the best is a wheel as wide as the tire carcass (widest part of tire). So, for instance, a 225 tire should be minimally mounted on a 8.5" wheel, 9" even better but no wider. Some stance guys actually luck out when stretching, although most overdo it. Chimps. A 9" wheel will stiffen the sidewall optimally, shape the tread better, and reduce tread squirm.

- If all of this stuff is too much trouble and one is looking for a great road tire that does everything such as braking, handling, rain, quiet(er), longevity, comfort - go Michelin PSS. But expensive and smallest sizes are 17".

- I like data from racing Miatas the most, especially turboed. Not fwd but similar weights, springs, they put tires to the test with 250 - 400 hp, and are extensively tested from grass roots to pro.

- A lot of Miata racers still like the Kumho XS for their ability to stay sticky on a road course. I read a couple of days ago that they are even worse than I thought when it's chilly - which verifies my suspicions that they contributed to my rear spinning about 8 times at this winter's autox school. (I have RA1s front/Kumhos rear)

- A lot of guys were disappointed, especially at Nationals, with the Rival's autox performance. Everyone thought they were THE answer. Some titled with them but many went back what they had been using. Rivals make a nice track tire and have been likened to older r compound semi slicks. It's still a ground breaking tire and well worth having, probably the best overall Extreme Summer.

- A tire has to match the suspension set up AND the driver.

- A lot of guys like the RS3s over Rivals. The RS3s also make a lot of sense for high hp EPs with their excellent straight line traction.

- My next choice of tire will be the Toyo R1R in 245/35/17 if I can afford them. I will greatly miss my RA1s, not so much the Kumhos, but they were fun, too. If I can't afford the switch I'll probably go RA1 245/45/16s all around. The R1Rs are still considered by many to be better at autox than RS3s and Rivals - if it's cool or wet. They also overheat/grease up fast on the track. So why do I want them?
1. Only tire in a 24" diameter and 9 1/2" tread.
2. They are too greasy here in the desert for summer autox. So what, I'm too greasy in the summer here, too, and have no desire to stand around in the desert sun on a tarmac registering 135 degrees plus. Autox, for me is just for suspension tuning and nut-behind-the-wheel tuning. R1Rs are perfect for the street as they warm up quickly and are at a good temp for the street. The RA1s I warm up more.
3. I will someday use slicks for track and autox.

Hmmm, so optimally I should be contemplating 10" wheels front and rear.

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Just to make sure, threw a thread out on ClubEP re. whether moving my rear 6" 515s to the front would pose a problem (too short). Musty said it would be fine. Now to find some cheap 6" 750s.

[Ba82Ep3]

Are they progressive rate or linear? Sorry if you mentioned it...